Trains

[Joshuamonkey]

Well then, I think we agree that Cantr is not like real life, so this discussion is pointless anyway. However, being able to take a direct path is something I think we should add to Cantr.

And yes, I wouldn't mind having helicoptors.

[Piscator]

If we had the possibility to create routes between unconnected towns, we could probably use the same mechanic to create new, regular roads.

Having air travel is probably a good deal easier to realize. All we would need to have is a new type of sailing that ignores coasts. We would of course ony have balloons until some kind of fuel consumption in free roaming mode is possible. This is getting off-topic though.

[Tosti]

Darn this subject really makes my head break of thinking today.
Ok, what we want is a new way of travelling.
And every way of travelling should have its advantages and disadvantages.
So what can be the difference between air traffic and trains.
Trains will cost a lot of resource to build, but maintaining and fuel should not be as much.
Airplanes will not only cost a lot of resources but also needs a lot of fuel and also a lot of maintenance
the advantage compared with land vehicles;
So with airplanes/helicopters you should be able to go were ever you want, and trains will make a stronge resource exchange connection between two or more big towns.
So with this new perspective joshua is right, and the long distance rail-tracks will not interfere with the roads or smaller towns. Some interaction will be lost but new ones will be created.

Are these things programmable? There is only one problem with the train connection, it can cut through land, but what about lakes that are in the way?

[Joshuamonkey]

There is only one problem with the train connection, it can cut through land, but what about lakes that are in the way?

A bridge could be made. Preferrably, the railroad would cost more to make depending on how far it's travelling over a lake, or it would just be impossible. We're planning on having a restriction on how far the distance between two stations can be, however.
Helicopter/airplane idea here:
http://www.forum.cantr.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18220

[EchoMan]

I believe it would be extremely difficult to program cost of rail based on the terrain it's passing through. One alternative (however unattractive it seems to me at the moment) would be to have administrators calculate the cost manually, but that fits so badly into the rest of the cantr world, so I don't really want to write that down.

[Tosti]

No that would look unprofessional

Maybe it would be simpler to just calculate the paths that would already connect the two towns at the moment. Only for calculating the costs. So when there is a lake in between the two towns it will cost a lot more because program calculates the total distance around the lake.
But for the actual travelling you can use a straight line between the towns to calculate the travel time.
So the costs are higher when there is a lake in between, (imaginary a bridge is built).

[EchoMan]

You are (again?) assuming that railways follow paths. I don't like that, and it's not desided or in majority (I think) that they should.

And Cantr roads crosses water in many places. They don't go around them.

[Joshuamonkey]

Perhaps we could just add a significant addition to the cost if you go over a lake, a large defined cost for a bridge. In many cases this should discourage going over water. It may be better to cross the water with a large lake, but it would still cost a lot and take more time.

[Tosti]

Nonono echoman i'm not assuming again that the railroad should follow the path. As I wrote. It is only to calculate the cost for the railtrack.
I wanted to give you a simple solution on how to calculate the cost if there is a lake in between two towns. Instead of manualy calculating it.

I will try to describe it easier;

For example:
when drawing a straight line (railtrack) between point A and point B = 10 km

The calculating cost part
Situation A - there is a lake in between
When drawing a line around the lake between point A and B = 15 km
Situation B - there is no lake in between
When drawing a line between point A and B = 10 km

When cantrians want to build railtrack from point A to point B they only see that the distance is 10 km.
But in situation A they will pay more.
In situation B they will pay less.
the cantrian think in situation A they have to pay more because this is the cost of the bridge, but in the simple code that is behind it (the calculating cost part) it calculates the cost going around it.

So than.. how do you draw a line around the lake.. We do already have the paths. So if you use the paths to calculate the cost from A to B than you will have the same! So only use the paths for calculating and not for the actual railtrack that will be built.

[EchoMan]

Paths still are straight line between two points. They do cross lakes at many locations.

As I said before, it will be extremely difficult to base cost of rails on the surroundings (more than the town areatype, hills, grassland, etc).

[Joshuamonkey]

That still seems like an odd solution and complicated, since it would have to automatically calculate the shortest route, and then add up the distances. The results of this could vary a lot depending on what paths there happens to be around a lake.
Would it be hard for the project to simply know whether or not you're going to be crossing a lake?

[Tosti]

with points I mean two towns that are far away from each other that want to create a railtrack.

what joshua suggests is of course more simple, but is that possible to program?

[EchoMan]

I'll say it for the third time: It's extremely difficult to base rail costs depending of what area type you build it on. Everything is possible, the impossible just takes longer.

[Tosti]

Ok I;m out of ideas to help you with it,

and if we are just repeating
make it accepted and go for it!

[Piscator]

Actually I'm pretty much against any system that doesn't follow paths. As far as Cantrians are concerned, the space between towns and roads does not exist. Using it to build railroad tracks would essentially be the same as sending the train through hyperspace.

To be more accurate, the important part is not the following existing paths, but crossing the towns between the start and target location. It should not be possible to teleport goods and people through enemy territory without them being able to intervene or even notice it.

Using existing paths would have the advantage though, that we wouldn't have to worry about pathfinding issues since we would know exactly if there is a connection between two points and how long it is (per definition).