Cantr II Discussion Forum

In contradistinction to all the inept "economic scarcity is great" theoritization in many other threads, let's discuss what it'd be like if there was the ability to mass produce certain things. Using the example of clothes, suppose you are a tailor making uniforms for a town. You have to tediously make shirt by shirt, by shirt. Pant by pant by pant. You get the idea - is that anyone's idea of fun?

Well maybe that's why so few chars/players survive after having the "bright idea" to become the town tailor. The proposal is to make it possible to produce 10 or even 20 shirts (fixed) at a time. This could be a special kind of project, maybe others can help me out here where it might fit in best, on machines or elsewhere, and it could have these special features:

- It predictably takes a long time to complete (ten shirts, it's a long time), and you need a lot of resources all at once.
- The more people work on the project, the more efficient it becomes, the combined effort is additive plus there is a certain bonus percentage of speed added to the project for each contributing person
- Maybe it could be somewhat more efficient as far as resource consumption too.

I anticipate the scarcity people are going to have a migraine over this, shouting that the last thing we need is more items, since they see in the database that there are millions of them. Dear scarcity people, you are wrongheaded about it, as always. Your fundamental error is reliance upon a THEORY of how the economy works, which is niether proven nor the only one out there. You though, think it's the reasonable and selfevident truth, when it's only a simple theory that certainly doesn't apply in every case. Another problem is, you guys, is that 95% of those items are locked away in people's storage. They are locked out, idle, and effectively not part of the game at all. And your beloved scarcity only hurts the game, because there's just not enough items, clothes, things available out there for most people to play with.

It would be nice if people could do themed uniform more reasonably, and even just in general have a bulk tailor or weapon or tool business that makes some actual sense to operate. You invest a lot of resources and effort at a time, but then reap the rewards of greater productivity, and are now even able to offer your customers some kind of selection of convenient massproduced items.

I'd actually appreciate the option to make multiple items at once. If ten shirts take the tenfold of resources and time, it's just a matter of player convenience.

I've by the way started to define projects that allow making a couple of small items at once, but we have to create a new build menu option for any particular combination of number and item, so this will only be available for a few select items. A general mechanic that allows you to specify how many items you want to make shouldn't be that problematic to program though.

I am stunned, instead of intense hating on the very idea of everything I say, there's actually stuff like that already being implemented.

And agreed, it's a very good idea to limit massproduction only to certain select kinds of item: certain simple clothes, certain tools, and certain mid-range weapons (leave the top of the line axe/claymore/crossbow as individual crafts). Then leaders and merchants can get stuff like that made enmasse, to equip new people and customers, while making all the profit that their sicko capitalist hearts want.

To be clear about it, mass production doesn't give you any actual in-game benefits, except for not having to start several projects and logging in every few hours. It's purely for player convenience and I'd like to keep it that way.

I have many chars who don't wear clothes or wear something very simple even when they have access to good clothes. It is because clothes have no real use in Cantr. None of my chars carry junk items like spoons and forks either. Until some real functionality is added to such items, no kind of production is really going to help the game and more and more memory in the database is wasted.

Rows in the database isn't an issue. Roleplay (or the lack thereof) is.

In RL more people working on the same project makes them less effective, than working individually. But I agree, there could be an option for bulk production. Making the same item 10 times in RL would definitely make the work more effective. And that is a good idea for the game, cause it encourage people to specialize in particular things.

Rumaan wrote:I have many chars who don't wear clothes or wear something very simple even when they have access to good clothes. It is because clothes have no real use in Cantr. None of my chars carry junk items like spoons and forks either. Until some real functionality is added to such items, no kind of production is really going to help the game and more and more memory in the database is wasted.

You play with mathematical approach, and that isn't realistic at all. If clothes are wasted why so many chars use them? Clothes, especially expensive ones have influence on char's beeing.

I think your chars don't like you much.

Rusalka wrote:

Rumaan wrote:I have many chars who don't wear clothes or wear something very simple even when they have access to good clothes. It is because clothes have no real use in Cantr. None of my chars carry junk items like spoons and forks either. Until some real functionality is added to such items, no kind of production is really going to help the game and more and more memory in the database is wasted.

You play with mathematical approach, and that isn't realistic at all. If clothes are wasted why so many chars use them? Clothes, especially expensive ones have influence on char's beeing.

I think your chars don't like you much.

No, I don't play with a "mathematical approach". So many chars wear clothes purely because of RL influences. I agree, however, that clothes do indicate a char's "wealth" but other than that they don't serve much purpose. From my experience, the most sought after things in Cantr are weapons, vehicles and such and that is because they have some real functionality and use. If clothes give some bonuses then yes they'll be more sought after with or without mass production.

I like this idea.

Excellent idea. It will make life a lot easier.

What about if you did give some advantage to this? How about a 'Production Line' machine which as little as one person could use, but would only become cost/time effective when a number of people work on it at once.

For example a clothing production line. Someone using the production line on their own to make say a hemp skirt would take longer to make a hemp skirt than if they had done it manually. But with more people the process becomes faster until after say 3 people, it overtakes the speed of doing it manually.

For example, a hemp skirt:
1 person (manual) = 3 days | 1 person (prod.line) = 5 days
2 people (manual) = 1.5 days | 2 people (prod.line) = 1.6 days
3 people (manual) = 0.75 days | 3 people (prod.line) = 0.5 days
4 people (manual) = 0.375 days | 4 people (prod.line) = 0.15 days

So with each additional person working on a prod.line project the time is reduced by two thirds. But the project length when worked on alone with the prod.line is two thirds higher than when done manually. That way it will only be worthwhile when three or more people are working on it.

While I prefer the accepted idea, an alternative (if for whatever reason this would be more reasonable/easy to implement) would be to add the ability to have a project queue that allows you to select up to 10 projects that you would like to do in a row. In a way it might even work better because you could queue up 5 knit sweater" and 5 "knit pair of socks".

In the end I would be content with either suggestion. Projects can be a bit tedious, anything to remove OOC annoyances.

Going to be implemented really soon.

Implemented.



I've implemented Cogliostro's idea! I can't believe that. :O