Instead of Whispering

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Caesar
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Postby Caesar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:31 am

BZR wrote:I just want to say that well RPed evil chars have already difficult lifes. And I don't mean killers exploting game mechanics, but real evil chars.

I've noticed no change in character behavior

At the moment I don't play english chars, so that I don't know how thing are going there. I noticed it in polish zone, though it can be just my personal feeling. It could be good to make a query and count the average number of whispers per day before and after implementation.


Yet not many Polish persons come or came here to represent themselves.
- Every person lost in war is two too many.
- Respect comes from two sides and must be earned. Nobody has the right to it because of a title, sex, age, race or birth.
- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
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Postby Piscator » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:28 pm

Caesar wrote:Yet not many Polish persons come or came here to represent themselves.


Well, go to the Polish forum and tell them that yourself. In Polish.
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Postby Caesar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:42 pm

Piscator wrote:
Caesar wrote:Yet not many Polish persons come or came here to represent themselves.


Well, go to the Polish forum and tell them that yourself. In Polish.


I know the reason why they do not come to tell about it here.
But I'd like to somehow see their remarks translated. Perhaps one of them has something very useful to say that the non-polish are not able to read.
- Every person lost in war is two too many.

- Respect comes from two sides and must be earned. Nobody has the right to it because of a title, sex, age, race or birth.

- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

- I believe in True Love, do you?
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Postby Piscator » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:44 pm

*Wiro wrote:
BZR wrote:This feature is creating random small rp situations at cost of major plot events.


If the major plot event doesn't occur, then it isn't a "random small rp situation", but a major event chasing the criminals, for example.


No, it's no major event. If it doesn't happen it's no event at all.

Cogliostro wrote:I wonder what "playing comfort" Piscator was talking about. The comfort of being able to PM other characters without any worry that you'll be overheard? We've had that ability for a while and perhaps grown used to it, but I'm yet to read any reasonable explanation why it's necessary. It's certainly not in any way realistic, and it was constantly being abused.

All I'm saying is that if that's what you mean by playing comfort, then maybe it's a good thing to lose it. Exciting things tend to happen outside of comfort zones.


It's more about the psycological effect. People have complained that other people were behaving paranoid and seriously, what do you expect? All this suggestion does with it's near useless overhearing chance is create an uncomfortable 1984 atmosphere.

As for the last paragraph, should exciting things be created by players or by a random algorithm? If you think the game needs more zones of discomfort, create them yourself.
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Postby Caesar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:48 pm

Piscator wrote:As for the last paragraph, should exciting things be created by players or by a random algorithm? If you think the game needs more zones of discomfort, create them yourself.


Most of the time the players suggest those things.
But they are shot down by people who do not wish to have their comfort taken from them. Or to put it better; To lose their 'weapons' that they use in the game.
- Every person lost in war is two too many.

- Respect comes from two sides and must be earned. Nobody has the right to it because of a title, sex, age, race or birth.

- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

- I believe in True Love, do you?
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Postby Caesar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:50 pm

Caesar wrote:'weapons'


For instance 'barricading' by filling a building with stuff.
Every time things are suggested against those types of things, it is being shot down.
- Every person lost in war is two too many.

- Respect comes from two sides and must be earned. Nobody has the right to it because of a title, sex, age, race or birth.

- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

- I believe in True Love, do you?
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Postby Piscator » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:42 pm

Well, I agree more or less. But there are also tools that are needed due to the set up of Cantr. It's hard enough to get some privacy when a location is a dimensionless spot and no buildings are available. If we had the ability to walk on the beach, sacrificing a few ticks for some privacy, I think I wouldn't have much of a problem with getting rid of whispering altogether. That would at least be better than the half-assed implementation we have right now.
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Postby Caesar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:00 pm

Piscator wrote:Well, I agree more or less. But there are also tools that are needed due to the set up of Cantr. It's hard enough to get some privacy when a location is a dimensionless spot and no buildings are available. If we had the ability to walk on the beach, sacrificing a few ticks for some privacy, I think I wouldn't have much of a problem with getting rid of whispering altogether. That would at least be better than the half-assed implementation we have right now.


And now that is something I can agree to. Perhaps we should be able to have conversations in, of course, the buildings, the town center and each of the resource locations?
- Every person lost in war is two too many.

- Respect comes from two sides and must be earned. Nobody has the right to it because of a title, sex, age, race or birth.

- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

- I believe in True Love, do you?
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Postby Piscator » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:15 pm

Well, the "overhearing only when working on the same project" approach went in the same direction. Each project would equal a sublocation. If the overhearing chance would be set to 100%, whispering could be heard by everybody working on the same project.
I was against requiring that people would have to work on the same project in order to whisper, but I think it would be a good idea when in return outsiders wouldn't even notice you whispering. That would keep the events page clean, too.
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Postby Caesar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:25 pm

Piscator wrote:Well, the "overhearing only when working on the same project" approach went in the same direction. Each project would equal a sublocation. If the overhearing chance would be set to 100%, whispering could be heard by everybody working on the same project.
I was against requiring that people would have to work on the same project in order to whisper, but I think it would be a good idea when in return outsiders wouldn't even notice you whispering. That would keep the events page clean, too.


Yet it can be strange if you and someone else would be working on two pairs of pants, right next to each other, for example. Wouldn't that create the same situation?
- Every person lost in war is two too many.

- Respect comes from two sides and must be earned. Nobody has the right to it because of a title, sex, age, race or birth.

- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

- I believe in True Love, do you?
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Postby Piscator » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:43 pm

Indeed, but that's where it becomes hard to program. I guess open buildings like pavillions could be a solution. When whispering, you could only be heard inside it, when talking out loud, people in the town square would be able to hear you, too. The same should apply for vehicles.
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Postby Caesar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:01 pm

Piscator wrote:Indeed, but that's where it becomes hard to program. I guess open buildings like pavillions could be a solution. When whispering, you could only be heard inside it, when talking out loud, people in the town square would be able to hear you, too. The same should apply for vehicles.


The same already applies for vehicles, right?

This is a great idea, I think. So technically stationary vehicles..?
- Every person lost in war is two too many.

- Respect comes from two sides and must be earned. Nobody has the right to it because of a title, sex, age, race or birth.

- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

- I believe in True Love, do you?
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Postby Piscator » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:21 pm

Well, it doesn't apply to whispering yet in the way described, but it does appliy to certain other events, so it shouldn't be to hard to program or to get used to.

This is a great idea, I think. So technically stationary vehicles..?


Exactly. This has been suggested before though for other reasons. I'll see if I can find the thread.
Last edited by Piscator on Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Caesar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:23 pm

Piscator wrote:Well, it doesn't apply to whispering yet in the way described, but it does appliy to certain other events, so it shouldn't be to hard to program or to get used to.

This is a great idea, I think. So technically stationary vehicles..?


Exactly. This has been suggested before though for other reason. I'll see if I can find the thread.


Revive the thread, perhaps?
- Every person lost in war is two too many.

- Respect comes from two sides and must be earned. Nobody has the right to it because of a title, sex, age, race or birth.

- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

- I believe in True Love, do you?
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Postby Piscator » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:41 pm

If you like to... ;). That's the most recent one I could find.

http://forum.cantr.org/viewtopic.php?t=14467

By the way, can you see from the outside when people inside a vehicle are whispering? If that is the case, vehicles grant perfect privacy even with the current implementation already. If you can't see people talking, you can't overhear them either.
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