Changes to drying racks, smokers, meat jerky and smoked meat

[Sunni Daez]

As I said before... the rack change isn't the bother... you cut it's rate to an 8th of what it was...it's very harsh but doable... but ~then~ the eating rate double.... makes it usless food.... Free you say? HARDLY!! I traveled for almost 2 years to get the string for that rack.. making senew string was not available then... on top of the travel for the string, I had to go to a forest, where I almost died in 1 day from animal attacks... and I hold an iron shield... it took many many days worth of gathering of an almost useless raw healing food in order to heal ... of course I was sooo damaged that this took even longer to do..

so your arguement of it being ~free~ food... is full of holes... now, if it is going to take 8 days to make the equivalent amount of food, then you double what you eat it at... it now takes 16 days to make the equivalent amount of food...almost a full year... come now... you don't see a problem with that?

[schroederjj2003]

so what is decided, we have all put in our 2 cents or more and are hoping for an answer.

[ceselb]

I traveled for almost 2 years to get the string for that rack..

That tells me with 100% certainty that the drying racks were very broken before.
The thing is that automatic with manual assistance is hard coded to double the speed when helping manually.
I would not have minded having the speed quadrupled, so that the new manual speed was the same as the old automatic. But now that isn't possible. We wanted to keep the automatic aspect, so the rates were kept low.

I have 5 chars that have lived off jerky all their lives. The 3 of them that have no other means of food but meat will worry a little, but luckily there are other ways to prepare it.

[Chris]

The drying rack was broken. I don't see how meat jerky was broken. Like other prepared meat, it was a good travel food because of its nutritional density. Now it's not so good.

Automatic projects are good because they allow multitasking. What's bad about them, as currently implemented, is that they don't penalize sleepiness. If you limited automatic projects to a short fixed length -- e.g., one day -- then people could still multitask, but only if they are awake and bother to start new projects every day.

[Tiamo]

Automatic projects are good because they allow multitasking. What's bad about them, as currently implemented, is that they don't penalize sleepiness. If you limited automatic projects to a short fixed length -- e.g., one day -- then people could still multitask, but only if they are awake and bother to start new projects every day.

Good point, meat will rot rather than dry if you leave it on a rack for 20 days...

[ceselb]

The drying rack was broken. I don't see how meat jerky was broken.

So you'd be alright with something like 12 grams per day per rack then? While keeping the 22g/day nutritional value?

It's difficult, if not impossible pleasing everyone. While that option would certainly have been viable, it would have taken a long long time to correct the massive amounts of jerky stored away by some people.
As we did it, those people still have a benefit from their old stores, but not as massive as it could otherwise have been. It was a judgment call and I still think it was correct.

Some people want to be cooks and there are some inns and such in game. It has been impossible to sell food, even cheaply.
I have a char with a mountain (50+ kilos) of jerky, he has never spent a day of his life cooking. He gives away kilos of jerky to everyone who asks. I have another without access to meat or other raw foods. He's been cooking most of his life, using what others bring in and is easily feeding 10-15 people doing so. Wich one is more interesting? I would argue the latter is, for most people.

[Tiamo]

Good travel food should be hard to get, somewhat inefficient to make, but not based on real rare ingredients. Hard to get meaning it takes several steps to process it, and cannot be made in large amounts per day.
I think meat jerky is ok at (33-)47(-50) g/d, there are more difficult foods out there (like pizza!)

[schroederjj2003]

jerky -
22 grams is good but the drying racks are still worthless now.


smoked meat-
the smoker value is ok, but the amount eaten should be lower, back to 22 grams.

[Cantryjczyk]

You can think of that like global in game catastrophe. Some kind of light not toxic mold, what infest meat when it is not cooked on heat fire or salted, but left alone or to dry. It makes meat dry slower, and it make final effect less neutrious. So it is not degredation, it is adding new thing to game by RD. (in game reasons: climate change? to much industrial? some alchemic evil science? stardust between sun and cantr planet? enless possibilities) Who say that it must be always new good things anyway? Food still not rot, there are no scurvy, no vitamins or fluids need, no real health problems or disease what are life dangerous. Food change make cantr still easy to play and live in, usually. people who depand on drying meat to much will not die in matters of days, but years. They have time to think about other possibilities.

PS. You can still take from not existing backpack this whole horse body, and cook, after 20 years, using dry horse dung, and have good meal. :]

[Miri]

Food still not rot, there are no scurvy, no vitamins or fluids need, no real health problems or disease what are life dangerous.

Mój drogi Cantryjczyku, shut up if you could?
If they're going to implement such a thing becouse you've given them such an idea... I will find you


I don't know that "good old times without neither drying racks or smokers", I haven't been in Cantr back then yet, but I believe you - it was ok, then.
But! (there's always 'but' )
Lets think of IRL. There were no electricity some time ago, and people lived, and was happy, and were missing nothing. Then the electricity was introduced - and still everything was ok, just other. Now imagine taking the electricity away from today's people, without any notification...

The automation with assistance was a good thing, but the amouns of changes were just too radical.

How about:

Drying meat:
100->50 automated
200->100 working (just as it were previously, but now not being 'for free')
Eaten amount of those 47g, that makes one rack/person/day rate, with only little of leftovers

Smoking meat:
uses more wood (I think it was the main problem, wasn't it?); 300g per day instead of that tiny 30g, perhaps?
Meat input/output unchanged, and smoked meat eaten at old, 25-or-something rate.

Anyway, why have you changed the smoking's eating rate? I can understand doing it with the jerky, but smoked meat is pretty much like coocked or salted one, when it comes about noutricious value.
Jerky irl is a lot lighter, but doesn't contain water - that would make it a good food for travelers, who could carry the jerky around and get the water wherever they get to. But in Cantr we can't make a joined daily rate of jerky+water, so I think making the jerky rate alone higher, to "include" that unconsumed water can be justified.
With smoked meat it's nothing like it.The only point here is how easy it is to make it. But if you changed the smoking in a way I've suggested it instead of this mess, smoking meat would pay off as much as cooking it, compared to the preparations neccessary for both of those means...

[Cantryjczyk]

Mój drogi Cantryjczyku, shut up if you could?
If they're going to implement such a thing becouse you've given them such an idea... I will find you

Who "they" you have on mind? RD? If so, I can tell you now, that we dont have plans like that. From reason better then "no one give us that idea". We know what we are doing here, really. Words like above I find offensive, be more gentle next time, please.

[Tiamo]

Miri, the smoker can be made with wood (and a little stone for the hammer) only. All cooking devices require at least iron or copper.
This means smoked meat should be somewhat less effective than cooked meat, in terms of grams produced/day, or grams needed/day.

[Chris]

While that option would certainly have been viable, it would have taken a long long time to correct the massive amounts of jerky stored away by some people.

As we did it, those people still have a benefit from their old stores, but not as massive as it could otherwise have been. It was a judgment call and I still think it was correct.

If large stores of food are a problem -- and I can see how they would be -- then it's not limited to jerky. Large stores of potatoes are a problem. Large stores of carrots are a problem. Increasing consumption rate of food will slowly reduce those large stores, but it also puts pressure on people who don't have large stores. If you want to reduce large stores of food, make all food not being held or in a container rot 1% per day. Over 365 days, that would reduce a store of 100,000 food to 2552.

Some people want to be cooks and there are some inns and such in game. It has been impossible to sell food, even cheaply.

I have a char with a mountain (50+ kilos) of jerky, he has never spent a day of his life cooking. He gives away kilos of jerky to everyone who asks. I have another without access to meat or other raw foods. He's been cooking most of his life, using what others bring in and is easily feeding 10-15 people doing so. Wich one is more interesting? I would argue the latter is, for most people.

Variety is good. The fact that different characters can lead very different lives is good. It seems that these recent changes make life on the mountain more difficult. If you take a look at mountain towns, I think you'll find that they are already in bad shape. The towns with potato and carrot fields are more likely to be thriving.

Another thing to consider is that people like to advance their characters. Producing food is standing still, just surviving. The more labor time required just to survive, the less time there is to make tools, construct buildings, build vehicles, travel, and so on. A reduction in food efficiency is, in effect, a tax on every activity in the game, as time has to be shifted from other activities into food production.

[Gran]

This means smoked meat should be somewhat less effective than cooked meat, in terms of grams produced/day, or grams needed/day.

This doesn't mean anything. If I cook a steak in my PS3, in my oven or on a fire pit, it will still be cooked steak.

I say that the eating rates should be the same. The work idea proposed by Sunni is interesting. A drying rack without work could only feed 2 people, but if these two work, they could feed also their companions. Making the wood cost at the smoker 10x more expensive sounds a little harsh, but is a good way. I could think in 5x. Still, the eating rates must still like they were previous the change.

Many people complain about these ginormous storages of food that you have all over the dominions of Cantr, Siom, Kirin, Drofj and other cities but I must remember that doens't happen all over the entire cantr.

Also, others keep moaning about how their Cooks, Bakers and etc can't role-play correctly because of the "free food" and are now "starving to death".

This ins't a rp reason, this is a economical reason afecting the whole game. You can still roleplay, just don't ask money for your food. Yeah, distribute it, we have a town where cooking is more like an common art and they don't charge for that, it is just for the pleasure of the traveller's tastes.

Also, if the people don't eat at Inns because of "free food", well just stop distributing it. If you stop giving away food your people will have to eat at them, if they can't pay, start giving them payments instead. Only money, no food.

If you are still not confident, I have my last sugestion: Give the elaborate food new atributes like healing, energy and etc.

[Cantryjczyk]

Dont take it wrong. Great that you all have opinions. Some people like these changes, some not. But. These changes are not one person fast idea without thinking. It is result of RD working, we know what we are doing, and these changes are final. Giving opinion is ok, but hoping or wanting for unfo, change what we do, is just pointless. Please akcept, that it is now how it is, and it will be like that from now. Just saying.