Musical Instruments?

[Surly]

I think cantr instruments, if they're introduced, should at first be primitive: flutes, pipes, horns, lutes or primitive stringed instruments, xylophones possibly, various drumlike things.

Rather than saxophones, clarinets, keyboard instruments, synthesizers, guitars, etc.

I totally agree. And my idea is for a soundless version (if you catch my drift) in keeping with Cantr. No need for MIDI files. Use your imagination, and avoid direct plagiarism.

I want a flute or a lute. Or possibly a mandolin.

[west]

I agree with all you guys. Rather than risk bad or filked art we should have no art or creative expression of any kind.

No, better to encourage people to express themselves CREATIVELY by not encouraging them to express themselves using other peoples' work.

[Bran-Muffin]

I agree about the lord of the rings part, not the rest of it. Some people might want ot have their character be a great painted but cant paint or draw themselves. In cantr how could you say In Character that it was stolen art? Your characters wouldnt know so go with it its role playing dont bitch and moan about it because people try to have a little fun with a painter character. Remove the lord of the rings crap and real life pictures of real models and then there shouldnt be a problem.

[Nick]

I agree about the lord of the rings part, not the rest of it. Some people might want ot have their character be a great painted but cant paint or draw themselves. In cantr how could you say In Character that it was stolen art? Your characters wouldnt know so go with it its role playing dont bitch and moan about it because people try to have a little fun with a painter character. Remove the lord of the rings crap and real life pictures of real models and then there shouldnt be a problem.

One problem;
Plagiarism = illegal

[Bran-Muffin]

I definatly would not call that Plagiarism, the person isnt taking it and saying he created it himself and trying to sell it or post it in places saying it was his. He is taking the art and using it, the character saying its his, but not the person. Yeah, i wouldnt call that Plagiarism. To me anyone calling that Plagiarism would be saying something like your avatar is as well.

[wichita]

Yes it's not plagiarism it's copyright infringement.

<i>Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag time gal!</i> I think that's what the frog was singing right?

[west]

Fair use = forum avatars, Napoleon.

I found a picture I really wanted to use for a character portrait once. But it was copywrited, so I wrote an email asking the girl who drew it if I could use it.

She said no, so I didn't.

I feel like if you get permission you ought to be able to, perhaps, but not otherwise.

[Bran-Muffin]

That or it you cite the source of the picture.. somehow.

(yeah its edited! west knows why.)

[west]

see, that's a problem. Saving an "OOC: pic source www.something.com "
line at the bottom of the note, you really can't cite your source IC.

That might be the best compromise, actually, to put that OOC source line in.

You can't really cite your source as an IC part of the note, but if you don't it's infringement/pretty lame.

[The Industriallist]

I must beg that no one use "OOC:" in notes...

I mean, better to use it than to leave it out when you need it, but...I really hate seeing those three letters anywhere. Especially in enduring objects.

Also, I have to question the play quality of using art off the internet as your character's work. Aside from legal issues and OOC content, you are plugging in the artistic talant and inclinations of someone who is probably radically different from your character (not living in a largely neolithic setting, for one.). So it's hard to believe that the person you rip off from (or legally use...) creates the art that your character would, if art means anything at all.

[SekoETC]

One chance would be putting ooc text with a green font so that it doesn't show up, then you don't need to see it if you don't want to. Or putting it as alt for a picture.

[NetherSpawn]

If you can't be creative within the existing system, then you're not very creative at all. Which I have no problem with, but isn't that an internal issue?
You can write stories, poetry, plays, etc. Why isn't that enough? You don't pester scientists to create Asimov's Visi-Sonor (which combines music and hallucinatory experiences for a multi-sensory experience) so that you can make new RL compositions, do you?
Certainly it's ridiculous to rip off art and music to put in Cantr, especially when a picture of someone does not help you identify that person.
RP actions are always trouble, because they invariably are not a complete description of what happens. It's much like, instead of giving a rousing speech, doing:
You say: *Gives a rousing speech about how evil Drojf is*
That's a pretty cheap technique in a book, but the reader is not actually supposed to have perfect perception as to what is happening. In Cantr you ARE supposed to have perfect perception.
*Plays some mad hot guitar riffs* is something I never want to see.

[TQ]

It's much like, instead of giving a rousing speech, doing:
You say: *Gives a rousing speech about how evil Drojf is*
That's a pretty cheap technique in a book, but the reader is not actually supposed to have perfect perception as to what is happening. In Cantr you ARE supposed to have perfect perception.
*Plays some mad hot guitar riffs* is something I never want to see.

I like that point, I hate seeing stupid RP like that.

[MrPenguin589]

These two topics (this and 'Music and Art') need to be merged or something...

[formerly known as hf]

All posts from Locked topic with the same suggestion: Music and art

See also:
Music(2 pages)
Music in Cantr???(3 pages)

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:25 am
I think it would give a lot more flavor to the game if the characters could learn and play music. We would have to make instruments like guitars, pianos, futes, etc... we could prepare concerts, etc...
And it would also be great if we could make schulptures, paintings, and other art forms. Having a piece of art in a house would be a luxury, but some may want to have one.
Tomás

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:21 am
Music has been suggested (most extensively on http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4251). I don't know about art; I don't see how it could be implemented.

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:45 pm
I know EXACTLY how music could be implemented.

It would call for another skill though.

Ok, it works like this. I HAVE A GUETAR!!! I am skilled at playing the guetar.

13387: You here Mr.Peanut play the guetar skillfully.

Ok, I have a consert. 5 of them are skilled,3 are novic, 4 are experts. Now, if we number the levels of skilles like this....

Auquardly:1

Novicly :2

Skillfully :3

Expertly :4

(i might of gotton the order rong, or forgotton some skill levels.)
Ok, since 5 of them are skilled, that means we have a number 15(adding all of the skilled people up.) And we have 3 that are novic. That means whe have a 6. We have 4 experts, 16.
(16+15+6) devided by 12.

you find the mean of the points of all of the band playors.

And there is simply a project "playing in bannd" when a director who has a skill levle points like this.

Auqwardly 1

novicly 4

SKilfully 8

expertly 12

And his number goes into the mean too.

And you can just simply join this project, if you have an instrument. So, There you have it. ITS PERFICT!!IMPLEMENT IT!!!

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:48 pm
Sweet... i like this idea! More music if possible, please!

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:25 pm
You know, music made from one person could be heard from other people the same way right now. You just need music sheets that display notes by the syllables: do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, to. And you could use symbols for half-beats and such and then a key to respresent what they mean. I think "do" is note C, "re" is note D, and so on. Music could be done right now instead of having programmers to implement it, though instruments could be a nice touch.

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:34 pm

You know, music made from one person could be heard from other people the same way right now. You just need music sheets that display notes by the syllables: do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, to. And you could use symbols for half-beats and such and then a key to respresent what they mean. I think "do" is note C, "re" is note D, and so on. Music could be done right now instead of having programmers to implement it, though instruments could be a nice touch.

I am assuming you only know a little about music...
The do, re, mi, fa, so ,la ,ti, do can be used for any key (which is a set of notes). You could do it with the C-scale (which is C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C) a B-flat-scale(B-flat,C,D,E-flat,F,G,A,B-flat) or any other scale. Thus, music could be done right now, but it would be horribly inaccurate, as one persons "do" could be C and another persons could be F#. (Actually that makes an open fifth, which sounds pretty good...) Anyways, a better way to do it is how Pie suggested. You don't pick the actual notes and rhythm, you just play, be it awkwardly, novicely, efficiently, skillfully, or expertly.

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:31 pm
Well, first, I didn't see the suggestion Sho pointed even when I look for some time for one, so sorry about that.

I think the idea of having music in Cantr is something all of us likes, the problem is to what extent are we having music, and how to implement it. I'll try to make a summary of everything related:

For the first, I agree that we should NOT upload music files, nor put any link to real music. As Cantr has speech (character talk among themself and we imagine their voices), music should be likewise.

As for the implementation... Well instruments can be as any other item, they should be manufactured (with wood, iron, bronce, string, stone, etc.) and instead of having a 'use' botton we can have a 'play' botton:

13387: You hear Mr.Peanut play the guitar skillfully. (Great example Pie)

For this characters wound need a new skill, and all should start with akward level, because all need to learn and let practice level it up. The same skill applied to singing.

As for concert I also agree absolutely.

About written music, I think that could be done right now with the 'notes'. But I don't see it needed, it would need the player to know about music theory (to be a real musician) while other tasks like fighting with swords does not. So it wouldn't be balanced. I'm myself musician, I do understand written music, I just don't see the need to get into that detail. But anyway, if anyone would like to do it, just use the notes!!

About the instruments. I don't see the point on making it too complex, since it is just for roleplay, we could have drum (wood and leather), marimba (wood and iron), xilophone (iron), bone flute (bone), wood flute (wood), flute (iron), saxophone (bronce or iron and wood), guitar (wood and string -and maybe alittle bit of iron for the keys), violin (wood and string) and piano (wood, string and iron). Some are percusion, some stringed and some wind, maybe more in a future 'expansion' of the idea, if the implementation of this one is succesful enough.

Other forms of art?
Sculpture should be used to make scultures projects Smile, I mean, just like furniture, but with no use other than aesthetics. Uses a sculpture skill (that I think should start at the bottom level also). And the character could make: small sculpture (few grams of stone, iron or wood), medium sculpture (some grams of stone, iron or wood), and large sculpture (lots of grams of stone, iron or wood). And let the character describe it.

Theater maybe the same as music (but without instruments). It could use a 'play' skill and presented as a project (like concert). The plays can be written in current notes, so no change needed.

Dance could be just like theater, but with musicians playing background music.


In any case, the skill should reflect the ability of the character to sing, play an instrument, act or sculpt, not if the other characters like it or not. Let the artist describe what they are doing, and let the audience roleplay if they like it or not. So, for example, if 'John the guitar player' plays ackwardly the guitar and describes it as playing 'The Song of the One Eyed Pirate' (for which he could have a tab to share the audience or not), the audience could just don't care, tell him to shut up, give (throw) tomatoes, clap to support him (maybe his family and friends) or whatever they want.

What would Cantr programmers would need to do? Well, just add the skills (music, singing, sculpt, act and dance), and the objects (instruments and sculptures) to the current game... but I don't know how easy or difficult it is...

What do you think?

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:17 pm
I don't think it would be that dificult.

Put the skills of any other object ( maby different objects have different levels, i don't know) as property A!!!!!!

Put property A (skill) as an extra property to all instruments.

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:30 pm
Right now the closest you can get to art is pictures drawn outside of Cantr, sent to the PD, and linked into notes. I'd do it if I had any skill whatsoever.

HOW ABOUT THIS!!! Project PAINTING!!! This would be REALLY HARD TO DO, either that or REALLY EASY TO DO.

WAY 1) Have an in game painting sistem. You need sertain paints, such as, if you have red paint, you can only paint in red. If you have blue paints, you can paint frome any shade frome red to blue. AND there is a touch up on the painting. IF you are novic at it, then the picture is blured, and stuff, if you are expert, than the colors blend eysier, and stuff like that.

WAY 2)(the easy way Wink ) You get to have PROJECT PAINTING!!! You only get to discribe your painting, AND, if you are novic, it sais that it is a novic painting, and so on and so forth. You need 100g of hide(canvis) and 300g of wood(canvas)

Leo Luncid's, MrPenguin's previous, and Pie's subsequent posts have been deleted - as they contained no more than a quote of what they had already posted, which is part of the above 'merger'