Cantr II Discussion Forum

So now there is only a max of 5 % that a whisper is overheard by someone in the town? I find that acceptable.

Yes, correct. But the number of people hearing it can be much more than 5%.

Maybe there should be a maximum on how many people can hear the same whisper.

As I said on the other topic, if overhearing whispers was limited to people working on the same project, that would also limit the amount of possible listeners greatly. It would require more coding but still be simpler than for example turning each town into a 10x10 grid and allowing people to place their characters anywhere on this grid and only allow overhearing from one square away.

Plus sides for the projects idea:

- Potential listeners are visible as project participants

- Uses existing projects instead of having to come up with a separate conversation project

- Allows stealth as joining a project doesn't generate an event

- Allows privacy as there are projects with 1-2 max participants, and not working on any project would also make overhearing impossible

- Makes it possible to avoid hearing parts of conversations you don't want to hear (for example sex) - just drop the project

- Eavesdropping would still not be as obvious since it's not a separate project, people could claim they were just helping you work and not intentionally eavesdropping

- Simpler than other potential solutions

I like this solution.

I think I do too. It would allow for much higher chances of overhearing a conversation (which would make overhearing less of a freak incident) and would require a listener to be "close" to the listenee.

But how exactly would it work? Making it necessary for two people to work on the same project in order to whisper to each other would be deemed inacceptable, I assume. So, would you be able to overhear both sides of the conversation if you join the project of one of the whisperers or would you only hear one side. The latter wouldn't make much sense in my opinion.

I strongly suspect though, that the effort to implement this would be wasted. It would be too easy to avoid situation in which you can be overheard, so I think it would hardly ever happen. Still, implementing this wouldn't hurt.

I'd say you could hear whispers to and from the person/people whose project you are participating. But I would also like it to be so that if you try to whisper to someone while working on a different project than them, it would say you are too far away. It wouldn't be an awfully big hindrance since projects advance in ticks, so if you wanted to go talk to someone but still work on a separate project, you could just drop the project while you're off talking to them, and resume it right before the project tick. It would make more sense too, since imagine if one person is breaking a lock and another person is harvesting potatoes, you'd think one was close to the building and the other one on the fields, so it's silly that they can whisper across the yard without being heard.

Well, since projects can be interrupted and resumed any time, why shouldn't we make it easier for the player and assume characters do this by themselves? I have no trouble imagining a character stand up, walk over, whisper in someones ear and go back to their project. Forcing players to click on multiple buttons to actually interrupt the project and resume it later (always having to mind the next project tick) seems unecessarily awkward.

It would be interesting if this could be the one project that could be worked on WHILE working on another -- Since I imagine it is some sort of option in the code, if working on project "not =" join project, right? Not sure how all of this is in there right now, but if it could be possible to join one whispering project at the same time as being on another that would be best.

I also don't think that project should limit the number but that those on the project should at the least see that someone has joined them - I mean, that would make the most sense.

I really don't like this idea, to be honest. It's what we usually do: we implement something and then we reduce it's effect, so that it just becomes a nuisance without effect.

The result is just that instead of private talking, you have to drop project, say, join project again. So it becomes more screens for doing the same thing, and you can still talk in private at any time.

The original suggestion - as currently implemented - makes the use of buildings and private spaces useful, which should be the point ...

Jos Elkink wrote:I really don't like this idea, to be honest. It's what we usually do: we implement something and then we reduce it's effect, so that it just becomes a nuisance without effect.

The result is just that instead of private talking, you have to drop project, say, join project again. So it becomes more screens for doing the same thing, and you can still talk in private at any time.

The original suggestion - as currently implemented - makes the use of buildings and private spaces useful, which should be the point ...

This man speaks the might word of truth.

Agreed 100% with Jos. (if you don't have the postcount like me, gotta build up those brownie points - j/k )

Polish players from large towns hated it, but let's give it a little more time at least, they might come around like me and fall in love with that little thing. It really makes towns more dynamic, with rare unexpected elements.

Jos Elkink wrote:I really don't like this idea, to be honest. It's what we usually do: we implement something and then we reduce it's effect, so that it just becomes a nuisance without effect.

The result is just that instead of private talking, you have to drop project, say, join project again. So it becomes more screens for doing the same thing, and you can still talk in private at any time.

The original suggestion - as currently implemented - makes the use of buildings and private spaces useful, which should be the point ...

I agree with these statements, we should be encouraging the use of meeting rooms. Especially in large cities. I really don't like what I view as pandering to the large city runners by changing the mechanics to make it easier on small cities; if anything, in a large city there should be a MUCH higher chance of somebody hearing you. I think the reasons for this are quite apparent. 5% is way too low. It should be something like 4% a person on average, although if we were to increase the odds of someone working on the same project, then we could perhaps have the odds for hearing in general 2-3% and still make it reasonable. Private talking should only be for convenience, not secret messaging.

I don't think I've overheard any whispers after the local cap was put in place, so it might be too low at the moment. Looks like the current system is going to stay if Jos likes it but I still think it would make sense to increase the chance of overhearing for people on the same project.

As for people having sex in public, I guess if someone ends up hearing something they don't like, they can react to it in-game.

Jos Elkink wrote:I really don't like this idea, to be honest. It's what we usually do: we implement something and then we reduce it's effect, so that it just becomes a nuisance without effect.

Well, can be said about the current implementation pretty much too. I haven't even noticed anything in game yet, so people will either be mildly annoyed when they have to go inside or give a crap.

The result is just that instead of private talking, you have to drop project, say, join project again. So it becomes more screens for doing the same thing, and you can still talk in private at any time.

Yes, but it would at least be possible if you make the effort. Being able to to the same things with some clicks is still better than not being able to do the same things at all.

The original suggestion - as currently implemented - makes the use of buildings and private spaces useful, which should be the point ...

1.) That doesn't necessarily mean that the change is good or worth the price. Random meteor strikes outside would make buildings more useful, too.

2.) If that's true, wouldn't it be much more effective to remove whispering altogether?

3.) The original point was to reduce the annoyance caused by whispering, not to make buildings more useful. That was entirely a problem that could have been addressed by in-game means or by improving the interface.


All in all, I come more and more to the impression that this suggestion only serves players who are bored with their own characters and want to peep what others are doing. I see this implementation as a form of decreed voyeurism and it adds to the quality of gameplay only inasmuch as watching your neighbor with binoculars adds to the quality of life.