Fuel for harvesters/drillers

[SekoETC]

Propane can be used as a fuel. It's not hard to produce. The Russians who are very primitive people managed to build a gas purifier. All you need is to gather gas and process it, two steps. Even though it's a bit slow, it's not complicated at all.

[Sicofonte]

Not all mechanized things require an engine to run.

And those that don't need it are powered by animals or humans.
So... change the unfueled-machines to force 2 workers in order to be able to run (encouraging cooperation, and it has sense, someone has to drive the machine while others are pulling).

BTW, someone knows about a hand-powered hematite drill in RL?
I mean... not a drill to make small wholes in a wall, but like a pneumatic or hydraulic drill (or a jackhammer) without the pneumatic or hydraulic power... how could you "hand-power" it?

It seems the thing to do is make technology even harder for new small, developing towns trying to achieve higher technology levels, because that's the only way to make it harder for the places that are high tech.

It seems to you, but it is not the reason at all.

My reasons are: coherence, balance, cooperation, realism.

It seems your reasons are: "I want to develop faster".

Did you notice that, when you get the higher level, you can get bored because there is nothing else to make except interacting with others (chating or killing them)?


And did you notice that with each change, the values of the output ratios can be adjusted in order to mantain a final output similar to the one before the change?
So... the underdeveloped societies won't be harmed

[Solfius]

You make a good argument for fuel powered haematite drills, but I've always imagined harvesters as being manually operated, but I think requiring two people is a good idea.

Depending on the drill, some could require fuel, and some could be hand operated with a minimum number of participants.

Either way, I don't think there needs to be a separate engine for drills.

[SekoETC]

Someone go find a picture of a manual potato/carrot harvester. Not saying it would be impossible but I've never seen such a thing.

[Racetyme]

My reasons are: coherence, balance, cooperation, realism.

It seems your reasons are: "I want to develop faster".

Did you notice that, when you get the higher level, you can get bored because there is nothing else to make except interacting with others (chating or killing them)?

Thats the part of cantr I find unique. The development is all well and good, but the other characters are what makes it interesting. We don't need to make the game impossible. Leave it so we can get back to role playing.

[Sicofonte]

Did you notice that, when you get the higher level, you can get bored because there is nothing else to make except interacting with others (chating or killing them)?

Thats the part of cantr I find unique. The development is all well and good, but the other characters are what makes it interesting. We don't need to make the game impossible. Leave it so we can get back to role playing.

You can roleplay while you travel for some aluminium, building a machine or harvesting for cotton, in the same way that you can roleplay while gathering cotton by hand for 40 years...
The bigger or smaller diversity of the technologies, the more complex or simple of the technology tree... do not hinder with the roleplaying, I do think.


People that loves this game because its roleplaying environment, can still enjoy the game with or without any changes of the technology tree or development speed. They need instead improvement in the social mechanics of the game: family (or whatever), maybe combat system,

People that loves this game because its enormous diversity and freedom of ACTION do need the continuously improvement of the technology tree. At least, until it covers the most important aspects of the REALITY: any kind of craftwork (what includes armours) and industry (more vehicles and machines for producing faster), and the aspects affecting it like weather.


AND! ... neveer forget that people that loves development and so on, gives plenty of stimulus to the pure roleplayers.

[Racetyme]

Alright, I can respect that if that is what you like about cantr. But I urge you, don't make this into another reality. Its a game, always remember that. If something will make the game less fun, then we should not do it just for the sake of realism.

[Sicofonte]

I always imagined the potato/carrot/... tubers harvesters as a kind of complex plough (plow). But it has sense if there is a bullock pulling that thing...
If not, using a hoe or a fork should be better in RL (*): 4 workers with hoes will go faster than 4 workers pulling that thing. Just because with hoes, you dig just where you need, whilst the plough has to dig all the ground along, being less efficient.

If we don't use fuel nor animals, Cantr harvesters/drills are absolutly ilogical and unrealistic.

But setting a minimum number of workers will be good anyways.

(*) I have an orchard, and I have plough it with hoes and with tractor, and I know what I am talking about.

[Solfius]

Someone go find a picture of a manual potato/carrot harvester. Not saying it would be impossible but I've never seen such a thing.

these implements originally were horse drawn, and later vehicle drawn, however there is no reason why they can't be human drawn in the absence of horses.

The examples are for potatoes, but a carrot harvester would be very similar I imagine.

Can't find any images of hand operated mining drills, but this site briefly mentions them, so they did exist. The main difference between real and cantrian mining is than real mining used drills to prepare holes for blasting, whereas cantrian mining uses the drills to extract the ores directly

[Sicofonte]

But I urge you, don't make this into another reality. Its a game, always remember that. If something will make the game less fun, then we should not do it just for the sake of realism.

Absolutly agreed.

But... what is funny for one can be boring for another.

For example, I can tell you that roleplaying sex in Cantr is quite boring for me (but I try, 'cause it is expected from some of my chars).

People that uses to say "That change is not funny" (almost?) always says that the the only reason is "It forces me to do more things before I get my weapon/car/ship/..., and I want it now".
I think those people are technology go-getters that doesn't realize that the faster they get all, the faster they leave Cantr (and the funny of being pursuing your aims, managing your efforts, and so on).

[deadboy]

I'm sorry but I'm this close to quitting after all of the recent game deading changes anyway *Holds up a tiny amount* so if you try to kill the game anymore by making life even more difficult for my characters again I do warn you that it could be the final straw for me and I wouldn't be suprised if many players

[ceselb]

I always imagined a harvester something like this (since fuel didn't exist before):



I think that either some fuel (very little, think a lawn mower or something) or an animal should be required (cow/horse/zebra/moose/buffalo, maybe elephant too).

But I think we should wait until after a few weeks after we can domesticate animals until the change is made. That way there are options in game.

[Sicofonte]

I'm sorry but I'm this close to quitting after all of the recent game deading changes anyway *Holds up a tiny amount* so if you try to kill the game anymore by making life even more difficult for my characters again I do warn you that it could be the final straw for me and I wouldn't be suprised if many players

Some of your characters could become fuel producers, and life will be good for them.

And if something is going to happen about fuel/animals and machines, it is sure that it would happen AFTER a long period, for people being able to have any necessary fuel production technology.


Everything is relative.
Each change in Cantr brings more diversity, more variety of chances for the character, more options for the players to roleplay...

Any game that doesn't evolve... eventually dies.

[SekoETC]

I doubt no one's going to die in harvesters requiring fuel If a town is big enough to require a harvester in order to feed all it's citizens, then it has enough people to have some of them working on making fuel. Someone should compose a page about the steps of making different sorts of fuel in the wiki... Mh, actually I'll go start it. There should be such a thing.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

There were lawn mowers that didn't require fuel... just manual power.

Requiring fuel also means continually either producing some fuel or trading for fuel regularly to keep it running, which becomes tedious after awhile.

Seko showed some pictures and linked a site talking about manual harvestors and drills. Those things did exist, and Cantrians can be seen as using similar things. There's no technology level to Cantr. There's no reason they should require fuel and engines, either for realism or balance. I just fail to see how it would add anything to the game except more tedium.

Make new and better harvestors and drills that require engines and fuel to get more output instead and leave the old ones there as an option, too. Then if a community or company sees it as beneficial to invest more time and materials in making and using one, they can go ahead and do it.

Yea, games need to evolve. But not every change brings more diversity and options. Some slowly kill it because they're so inconsequential to the essence of the game. Cantr is already dying. The server is slow and the learning curve grows greater and greater.