disease

[SekoETC]

Well cancer isn't... but the likeliness of having it is lesser than what we have seen with this one. And I'm pretty sure this is infectuous since one of my characters was in the same room with someone who had it, and got infected. Then again, a third person was there all the time and never got it. So the chance of being infected must be lower than with the sneezes.

[Nosajimiki]

Eurika!<sp> I think I figured it out! ... okay, I still want to do more IG research to prove it not to mention Jos probaly wouldn't want people blurting it out so soon, but I don't think it is transfered between people. *puts on a white lab coat and gets to work*

[Surly]

I know that it either be spread between people without any interaction except talking to all, or it is the result of an environmental condition.

So far it seems random... and Jos, my personal opinion is that you should stop acting like a kid with a new toy and at least give us a glimpse of what is going on. Have none of the incidents over the past several years shown you that people just want to know what they are dealing with, and if they actually can?

[Jos Elkink]

Have none of the incidents over the past several years shown you that people just want to know what they are dealing with, and if they actually can?

The GAC is currently discussing whether or not I made the wrong decision by not announcing the details - the results of that discussion are not totally known yet.

And what the many incidents over the years have taught me is that the player base is *always* divided. While some people want everything announced, others don't. The ones that want it announced right now voice their opinion; once I announce it (if I do), the others will speak out and say that it's a pity and they were just figuring the cause and trying to spread it in-game, etc. etc.

I would also like to state yet again that forum users here hugely underappreciate how demotivating you guys are. Many times over the past week I've had thought about quitting Cantr altogether ... I know of other programmers who are already hesitant to develop anything that might affect the game itself. If you want improvements to the game at all, treat programmers / game designers with a little more respect and don't assume they're just idiots who can't see how it all would work out.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

assume they're just idiots who can't see how it all would work out.

I'm not sure that's necessarily the case, that everyone against it thinks something like that. It's just as demotivating to be staring at something that is at best, annoying, and at worst, likely to kill a character, especially when that something doesn't seem to follow any pattern between characters (yours or other characters around yours that happen to be vocal about it, which is rare other than saying they're faint, and not all characters feel faint before it happens).

After looking at each case (if you happen to have more than one you can look at), and not seeing any similarities, it's like, "Why should I bother to keep looking? I can't figure it out. This particular character will die if they keep getting it over and over." It gets frustrating trying to figure out a puzzle when you're not a great puzzle solver; it gets frustrating trying to consider all the minutiae of possibilities and still not see the right one after considering a thousand of ways you think it might work.

I don't think that all the details have to be given to relieve some of this frustration. Remember, yes, you can see how it can all work out; you can see the possibilities of where this might lead, but all we see is something that we can't find the logic in, even as we try. We have to trust in you that it is worth it, even though we can't see it now.

[Phalynx]

Hermi ebrace the mystery and randomness of the world of Cantr....

If you can't figure out the illness, and most can't, treat it like cancer - because for most of us in real life, cancer is scary, random and impossible to understand. We still get on with it and live our lives.. if we get struck down by it we do our best to survive.

Not so long ago people were posting about entropy, calling for cantrwide disaster etc. I was one of them. It would be churlish to complain about it now its happening. Count yourself lucky that it is mainly a slow death that you *can* RP. If we had had volcanic erruptions, towns slipping into the sea, or hurricanes that wiped out masses of the population.

Think of the changes in European Society that resulted from the bubonic plague... try looking at the bigger picture... it's a pretty modern outlook that sees catastrophe as something that requires a solution rather thankfullness that you've survived so far.

[sanchez]

Everything about mysteries and surprises is great, except death, and the near threat of it. It's not at all a criticism to care about chars we've been able to create and to want to keep playing them.

[Jos Elkink]

I totally, probably unsurprisingly, agree with Phalynx and seen from that perspective, I think, the mystery should lead to interesting roleplay.

Everything about mysteries and surprises is great, except death, and the near threat of it. It's not at all a criticism to care about chars we've been able to create and to want to keep playing them.

To be sure: I am not against criticism - I am against critique at a tone as if the staff are idiots who simply ignore all suggestions etc. We are still trying to develop a cool game, not a lab rats kind of situation (yes, I'm a social scientist, but no, I do not see Cantr as an experiment), but ideas of what is a cool game differ widely.

Finally, please do note that one characteristic of Cantr has always been that characters can die and need to survive. This is different from many other roleplaying games (e.g. Entropia, Second Life, etc.), but to me it's one of the key features. Some game mechanics will lead to characters dying, from violence, from illness, (indirectly) from old age, etc. That's part of Cantr. If players care about their characters, this leads to better game play, since you will seriously do your best to survive, but if you care too much and cannot handle when your character dies, you should consider whether you are playing the right game. Not to chase people away now, but just to be honest ...

[sanchez]

Guess nobody's actually died yet... But there are other mortal risks our chars get to assume in the game, like not building a shelter on Burgeo, or starting a war, that don't equate with just planning for a long walk or sail... and it's that choice that seems to be what's missing here, and accounts for the reaction.

[SekoETC]

In real life you could gather some berries from a roadside, or cook what you hunted, even if you happened to catch an awful diarrhea while travelling. But roads are scary places in Cantr. They're like an another dimension.

[Nosajimiki]

:) Guess nobody's actually died yet... But there are other mortal risks our chars get to assume in the game, like not building a shelter on Burgeo, or starting a war, that don't equate with just planning for a long walk or sail... and it's that choice that seems to be what's missing here, and accounts for the reaction.

Ever been in the city that someone else started a war with? How about a lone traveler geting off his bike only to be draged inside and murderd? How about accpeting a ride with someone somewhere only for them to turn on and kill you? Ever been boarded by pirates? Infact if you get really unluck on Burgeo, steping out just long enough to hunt could potentially kill you. These aren't choises you get to make that kill you, they just kill you. Faintness really isn't much worse than getting attack by a boar if you think about it. 1000 grams of meat can be cooked in 3-4 days tops. Farming healing food for 30 points of dammage can easly take 2-3 times as long depending on your meathod.

I kinda like the mystery of the deases b/c it forces Cantrians to think more about hygene than we would otherwise without him having to include deseases for everything that you should be careful with. More careful handeling of dung, buring dead bodies, diversified diets are all things you see people becoming more mindful of than they used to. Eventually i'd like to know something more concrete about it, but in the meen time I'm just glad there is something more to worry about on the mainlands other than my next paycheck... and the mess load of new leaders that are trying to propogate through agressive expansion. .

[tiddy ogg]

In at least one town someone is collating people's attempted treatment of this disease. It'll take a long time but they may sort it out.
(Of course, they may have got the idea from reading the forums, thus you could claim it is OOC influence, but that's Cantr llife.)

[Surly]

Jos, my criticism has nothing to do wit with way this is programmed. I am sure it is very well programmed, because when the Cantr programmers put their minds to something it invariably works very well as they planned it. My criticism is on your decision which completely undermines the point of the removal of the FOIG rule.

I question why the GAC or the GAB ever makes any kind of decision like that, considering it is ignored at the earliest opportunity. I would hope that original decision was based on some good reasons... have those reasons really disappeared so quickly?

If players care about their characters, this leads to better game play, since you will seriously do your best to survive, but if you care too much and cannot handle when your character dies, you should consider whether you are playing the right game.

I am not sure you could understand quite how much that comment concerns me. I've been playing this game for well over 3 years and I've never questioned whether Cantr was the right game for me, although I have disagreed with many implementations. However, that statement does make me think... you are really prepared to ignore a significant number of players in this way? It is no wonder that numbers are dwindling and the quality of roleplay (all this is just my opinion, of course) has fallen alarmingly... and you can just nod and not listen to what I say, but any kind of society simulator is going to suffer hugely if you chase away any people that are actually inclined to build relationships and build societies. In the absence of children, longevity of life is the only thing that will lead to the establishment of society... don't be so blase with it.

[Phalynx]

I am not sure you could understand quite how much that comment concerns me. I've been playing this game for well over 3 years ..............blah blah

Coincidentally I noitced your reply to the 'Which suit are you?' thread just before I read the above and I think the connection is clear.
You are a self confessed 'Acheiver':

Players give themselves game-related goals, and vigorously set out to achieve them. This usually means accumulating and disposing of large quantities of high-value treasure,

And of course if that is your aim for the game then having an illness that threatens your progress in this regard must be disheartening. But other people are not motivated by the same things and the very entropy that results from a lot of 'Acheivers' can confound those that have a more social bent. You may have more of a voice because your pedigree is so good but of course if concern is for dwindling numbers the people who should be listened to are those that join the game and leave quickly, not necessarily those with longevity.
In some respects I agree with oyur comment about children, but you fail to see that Newspawns ARE cantr children and older characters should be investing their legacy for a town or organisation in new blood rather than sitting there till they are very old, mutteting about the youth of today and sleeping a lot. To that end a disease of old age is required of any thing with characters working hard to build something that will outlive them, rather than trying to outlive everyone else...

[Wilmer Bordonado]

And of course if that is your aim for the game then having an illness that threatens your progress in this regard must be disheartening. But other people are not motivated by the same things and the very entropy that results from a lot of 'Acheivers' can confound those that have a more social bent. You may have more of a voice because your pedigree is so good but of course if concern is for dwindling numbers the people who should be listened to are those that join the game and leave quickly, not necessarily those with longevity.

Please forgive me because of my ignorance, but:

a) What's an "acheiver"? Is it, FI, someone's digging coal just to make iron or steel?
b) If so... Why an "acheiver" should be opposite to "those who have a more social bent?
c) Couldn't an achiever have a great social bent?
d) Why players who have quit the game should be listened, since they've tried it and haven't liked it? Is it related to MD in a certain way?

Thanks,

Wilmer B.