Item Quality - Original

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trexdino
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Postby trexdino » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:22 pm

lacki2000 wrote:
SekoETC wrote:I think everyone should have a chance of making an item of at least medium level, even if they were awkward. They just need to put more time into it.

Disagree :] Don't feel sorry about awkward people - they are masters in something else. This idea is about increasing diversity and improve economy as someone wrote before.
[quote]
One of my charaters doesnt have a single expert skill level. Not everyone has one expert. I don't like this, what about those people on Buegeo, if they have a to make something horrible they will die.
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lacki2000
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Postby lacki2000 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:34 pm

trexdino wrote: One of my charaters doesnt have a single expert skill level. Not everyone has one expert. I don't like this, what about those people on Buegeo, if they have a to make something horrible they will die.
This is a little bit exaggerated - items made by low skilled will mainly look worse and maybe will deteriorate little faster and maybe will have a slightly lower damage ratio but it will definitely not cause a mass dying of chars. Unskilled chars can do everything else not requiring any skill like trading, exploring, singing, drinking, etc.
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SekoETC
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Postby SekoETC » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:00 pm

And the evolution theory suggests that weak individuals should die, thus the strong ones survive to pass on their genes. In an environment where hunting (or making shields) is required for survival, either the society develops enough to take care of the less skilled individuals or then the weak individuals die, thus all surviving chars will be experts at the needed skills and most likely all newspawns will also be experts because of the good genes.
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Postby Yömyssy » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:54 pm

and when a new player comes to the game. he/she has probably played "normal" mmorpg's and is used to the idea that he can start at the
str 10
int 10
dex 10
and whatever there are, and then add 10 points to them how ever he or she wishes to... Then he/she spawns his/her first characters into place like (i.e.) Aki Jalahido Sover, gets a set of crappy skills, then he/she can't make anything good, no one hands him/her a shield and gets killed by a raging cow.. I don't know if that makes you try even harder with the other/the next char, but I just get frustrated with that sort of things

(to avoid wiseass comments: No, I'm not saying that everyone who comes to the game has played a mmorpg where you get to choose a set of skills and start klicking and killing)
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Doug R.
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Postby Doug R. » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:56 pm

*bump* There were really excellent ideas in this thread that flew way off track.
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Postby BZR » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:20 pm

*bump* There were really excellent ideas in this thread that flew way off track.

I agree. Could do much good if connected with changes in skill system
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Elros
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Postby Elros » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:19 am

Once the skill system is fixed I think these ideas would work great.
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Postby Drael » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:49 am

+1 Skill system need changing, and then skill-based quality of items would be great.
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Postby bobbogum » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:20 am

All for it, go diversity!
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Surly
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Variable item quality

Postby Surly » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:19 am

Summary
Current situation
All items have a fixed deterioration rate. Without repair, therefore, all shovels finished on hour X would crumble completely on hour Y. Repair is variable based on skill.

Proposed situation
All items will have a variable item "quality". Therefore, while all shovels will deteriorate at the same rate, some will start from a higher point and therefore take longer to crumble. This "quality" is dependent on the skill of the person making the item.

Pros
Adds relevance & value to the skill of the person making the item.
Adds variety to tools and weapons beyond item type, as no two weapons/tools would be the same (limited by the variation scale against the number of said tool in game :P ).

Cons
Added server load and extra information to hold for each item.

I'll amend the above as people comment below.

Those with a short attention span, can stop reading here. :wink:

Further detail
Currently the life of an object is dictated by the rot rate set by the Resources Department. All objects of a type rot at this same rate.

The proposal will follow these steps:
1) Each item type will have a minimum item quality (based on the resources, e.g. iron/steel/wood/bone etc.). For this example, lets say 500.
2) Each item will have a fixed build time, the same as now. e.g. 8 hours.
3) For each tick that a person is working on a project, an amount will be added to the item quality. This will be based on the skill of the worker, e.g. an expert might add 50, an awkward 20. So after 4 hours of an expert/awkward working, the item will be complete. The workers have finished the item and added 280 of the item quality.
Alternative: only the highest skill level of the participating characters is used at each tick (as suggested by Piscator).

4) Upon completion, the quality is fixed and cannot be altered. For this item, the quality is 780, whereas if the expert had done it alone it would have 900. The "quality" is visible within bands, e.g. the 780 item is good standard, the 900 is excellent. This visibility will be based on a scale for each asset (i.e. an excellent crowbar will last longer than an excellent bone knife).
5) The item will continue to rot at the same rate e.g. if the rot for the item is 1 per day, a good item will last 780 days, the excellent item 900 days.

Notes
- for items with multiple semi-finished objects, the final values will be added together (and increased slightly by the worker who finishes the item). e.g. a claymore made by the expert above may have a 700 blade, a 300 hilt and take 2 hours to complete, giving a final quality of 1100.
- it may be possible further down the line to vary the quality a person adds by the tools they use; e.g. an expert with a stone hammer does his skill x 0.8, whereas an expert with a steel hammer does his skill x 1
- ideally, this would coincide with the scrapping of the variation on completion time according to skill. e.g. an awkward person makes an item in 1 day but it has lower quality compared to the item made by an expert in 1 day.
- The tools effectiveness could also be affected by the items quality, e.g. an excellent claymore does 1 damage, a good claymore 0.8 damage, a poor claymore 0.5 damage etc.

Thoughts & feedback?
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EchoMan
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Re: Variable item quality

Postby EchoMan » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:36 am

I don't have time to read your proposal in detail at the moment. But this is part of the "open ended" discussion currently taking place in GAB. Quality has also been discussed/suggested before, but the forum goes 500 on me when I try to search for it.

I'm all for quality though. Also that the skil of a manufacturer determines the max quality of an item that can be achieved. Experience transfer when someone skilled works on the same project as someone awkward, etc.
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Surly
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Re: Variable item quality

Postby Surly » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:08 pm

I've proposed item quality before myself, so it has definitely been discussed before.

The main point of this suggestion is to hammer out a workable plan for implementation. Other people beyond you, me, Doug & Piscator should have the chance to participate. :wink:

Previous posts along a similar line:
Skill level and quality of created items.
Item Quality - Original
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EchoMan
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Re: Variable item quality

Postby EchoMan » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:35 pm

Why not merge these topics together then, so people easily can overview what has been discussed before? :)
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Addicted
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Re: Variable item quality

Postby Addicted » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:44 am

Surly wrote:Those with a short attention span, can stop reading here. :wink:

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Re: Item Quality - Original

Postby Joshuamonkey » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:25 pm

I like this idea! Especially with how skills are planning to be changed.
Problem: Will experts have to hide in locked rooms to avoid sabatage? They probably wouldn't even notice if some awkward skilled person helped for an hour or two on their project. In a way that would be a waste of the expert person's resources, which sometimes can be scarce or valuable. I feel like there's already the problem of people having to work inside by themselves or few others.
I don't really see a good solution, but I'd still like to see quality implemented! :)

Surly wrote:- The tools effectiveness could also be affected by the items quality, e.g. an excellent claymore does 1 damage, a good claymore 0.8 damage, a poor claymore 0.5 damage etc.

I don't care much for different tools being more effective, but I definitely think that weapon damage should change based on quality. Since Cantrians care about weapons a lot, I think that this would be the most important type of quality to change anyway, in addition to helping out more in terms of roleplay.
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