Item Quality - Original

[lacki2000]

Hi,
This idea was presented in polish forum and met quite good votes.
As we know diversity is very important factor of life, evolution and games It is good in Cantr that every char has a different level of skills and can create something faster/slower than others. Let's go farther: Skill level should influence a quality of created items.
Quality should be present in clothes, weapons, tools, jewerly and maybe vehicles.
Example:
Making a steel battle axe.
Expert:
Expertly made steel battle axe. (+10% dmg, +100% durability)
Skilled:
Skillfully made ... (+5% dmg, +50% durability)
Efficient:
Efficiently made ... (no influence)
Novice:
Novicely made ... (-5% dmg, -20% durability)
Muff:
Awkwardly made ... (-10dmg, -40% durability)

The same simple description can be used in tools and vehicles.
Clothes and jewerly should be described in much detailed way:
Example of bone bracelet:
Muff:
a bracelet of neglectfuly joined bone pieces, strung on a weak sinew
Novice:
a bracelet of novicely polished bones, strung on a length of sinew
Efficient:
a bracelet of carefully selected bones, strung on a length of sinew
Skilled:
a bracelet of carefully selected and well polished bones, skillfuly strung on a sinew
Expert:
an elegant bracelet of masterly polished bones with mistical carved pattern, skillfully strung on a sinew

So in case of clothes and jewerly level will influence the look of created item.

The advantages of this idea are quite obvious (i hope) and about disadvantages:
1. Every item must have its level (additional parameter).
2. Someone have to make additional desctripions for clothes and jewerly.
3. People with pretty thing will die more often
4. System has to do more calculations.

Ad. 4: System has to calculate final level of created item when chars in the project have different skill levels.
At first tick of a project a variable of item level (l_var) is created:

Code: Select all

l_var:=avg_of_all_people_in_project

Then at every tick of project progress system has to re-calculate an average value of created item:

Code: Select all

l_var:=(l_var+avg_of_all_people_in_project)/2

At the end l_var is rounded down to integer value.
This algorithm is not complicated and server should handle it very easy

Additionaly skilled chars could choose a speed of a project with penalty to level of finished item, for example: Expert (lev 5) can choose one of 5 speeds - he can make an axe very fast but it will be a worst axe (lev 1) - the same made quite long by the awkwardly skilled char (lev 1).
So he can chose speed of:
1. much longer - axe of craftmanship (lev 5)
2. a little longer - skillfully made axe (lev 4)
3. normal speed - axe lev 3
4. a little faster - axe lev 2
4. much faster - axe lev 1.

Efficient char (lev 3) can choose only one of 3 speeds:
1. a little longer - final item will be lev 3 (efficiently made)
2. normal speed - axe lev 2.
3. a little faster - axe lev 1.

Awkwardly skilled has only one speed:
1. a little longer - axe lev 1.

So what do you think about that?

lacki2000

p.s. sorry for my english.

[w.w.g.d.w]

Yes,yes,yes!

[marol]

And what about currently existing items?

[SumBum]

When I first started playing, I thought skill would have some factor in how quickly an item deteriorates. This is far more complicated than I was thinking but I like it. People don't seem to pay much attention to skills other than fighting and hunting. Something like this might make people seek a skilled craftsman for a particular item.

[lacki2000]

And what about currently existing items?

Let give them all level 3 (medium)

[SekoETC]

Currently awkward people have to spend more time on a project than skilled people. But if everyone was given a chance of making items as fast as they can or as skillfully as they can, or something in the middle, that might turn out to be interesting. Although there's hundreds of clothing items and writing five versions of each would take a long while, even if the difference was only one or two words. I think some clothing items should deteriorate and that's something that could be affected by skill. An expert could make a bracelet to last for hundreds of years while an awkward person would just throw it together carelessly and it could randomly fall apart within a year. But repairing could raise the duration of an item if it's done by someone who's more skilled than the original manufacturer.

[Voltenion]

Yes i like it! Its good. Its a nice and good job to lucky chars who are experts at making things...I have a char who will get rich if this thing happens

[Wolf]

This has also been mentioned in a thread here.
The thread was actually about tools involved determining quality, but on the second page of it I made a similar suggestion:

One thing I'm not seeing back in this discussion, and which frankly worries me, is that the state of produced items (crude, sharp, fine etc.) would be based on the tool used, but there's absolutely no mention of a character's skill.
If you wanna go the realistic route, you're gonna have to take skill into consideration as more than just how fast an item can be produced by a character.
For example, I've been on a survival trip in Scandinavia quite a few years ago, and the group I was in had good equipment, but we spent ages getting a small fire started... while another group had this outdoorsman in charge, he only used what he found outside, and a piece of metal and a piece of flint.... and while we were still trying to light our fire with matches, lighters and some petrol from a lamp, we could already hear a nice roaring fire from that other group.
An expert would be able to make a decent blade with crude tools, while a novice could have the best tools available and only come up with a blade that'd look more like a club than a blade.

[Gran]

I think it's a good idea.Make cantr economics more dinamic.I think learning should be implemented with that, but we may discuss it later.
Better tools+better workers=better tools.I like that.

[formerly known as hf]

Duplicate of:

http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6601 - Item Quality

Also related:
http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5080 - Quality of Resources and Goods

Also, a very good idea - I like

[Dozess]

I am against this suggestion as it stands now. Two points about that:

Positive: it is logical and I would like it, but

Negative: making and making same thing 100 time and having no chance to improve is not logical and that was point I liked about this suggestion. learning become crucial at this point, something like making 10 or 20 items makes you expert (or at least skill up), maybe dependent on item complexity, or maybe all items can have some learning bonus. It needs some kind of balance, introducing penalty for not being expert, you need to introduce chance to get better, and that chance have to be proportional to penalty.

Alternative: maybe it can be reduced up to maximum durability, if yo are expert you can make 100% durable item. If not, your item comes out a bit not so durable, and you have fix it often. That will be not very big penalty without chance to improve.

background: I like playing in primitive communities, and like to make everything by myself. recently one my character had good time being attacked by animals and he was running for his life to forest to get something for protection, that was fun and challenging, I like that character. And I know that other characters born in same location are forced to fight for their life very similar way. Thats good. but imagine that this character has made 5 low quality shields which are not suitable for protection, and all shields he will make later will be no better. that character would be frustrating after finding that.

just my opinion.

[SekoETC]

I think everyone should have a chance of making an item of at least medium level, even if they were awkward. They just need to put more time into it. I think the time difference between expert and efficient (and most likely efficient and awkward as well) is big enough as it is, so if this suggestion gets implemented, rather than making awkward people produce crappy items EVEN THOUGH they are using more time than any of the others would, no, an awkward person should be able to produce medium quality items with the same speed as they did now, but be given the option to try to work faster (maybe up to the speed of the efficient person) in which case their equipment would be of poor quality. Skillful people could produce expert items with increased work effort, efficient ones could produce skillful items and novice and awkward could produce efficient... Ok, maybe that's too much bonus for the awkward ones. But it just feels sad that they would start making crummy items even though they try harder than the rest.

[Voltenion]

agree

[lacki2000]

I think everyone should have a chance of making an item of at least medium level, even if they were awkward. They just need to put more time into it.

Disagree :] Don't feel sorry about awkward people - they are masters in something else. This idea is about increasing diversity and improve economy as someone wrote before.

Ok, maybe that's too much bonus for the awkward ones. But it just feels sad that they would start making crummy items even though they try harder than the rest.

That's a cruel fate of the muffs If they are awkward at the age of 20 then it is about time to stop doing it and try something else.

[offtopic]And thats why learning rate is not so fast in cantr world - cantrians are to old to learn fast[/offtopic]

[DylPickle]

I think everyone should have a chance of making an item of at least medium level, even if they were awkward. They just need to put more time into it.

Disagree :] Don't feel sorry about awkward people - they are masters in something else. This idea is about increasing diversity and improve economy as someone wrote before.

Ok, maybe that's too much bonus for the awkward ones. But it just feels sad that they would start making crummy items even though they try harder than the rest.

That's a cruel fate of the muffs If they are awkward at the age of 20 then it is about time to stop doing it and try something else.

[offtopic]And thats why learning rate is not so fast in cantr world - cantrians are to old to learn fast[/offtopic]

I agree with lacki2000.
You should have seen me when I would try to make a nice poster in high school... I'd put hours into it, and it would still turn into garbage.
Every character is good at something. They should exploit their strengths instead of chosing to depend on their weaknesses.