Uncopyable Notes

[kinvoya]

I've been reading this forum for a year now and I don't remember this coming up.

Would it be possible to add a button to make a note uncopyable?

I think this would add an important dimension to the Cantr economy because people could actually create something...map, art, book, etc...and sell it. These items would take on significant value depending on how many the owner/creator chooses to produce.

Edited to make my suggestion easier to see.

[nitefyre]

I think then we'd need to implement a print machine...and that'd change a big aspect of Cantr.

[kinvoya]

It couldn't just be uncopyable the way some are uneditable? Sorry, I don't know nada about programming.

[g1asswa1ker]

You know I suggested that eons ago... I think it had something to do with artworks to boot.

[Solfius]

I think just the option to make it uncopyable would suffice. Cantr notes don't work along RL lines, so I don't see a need to implement a printing press to copy something you don't require anything to make

[kinvoya]

What happened with that, glasswalker?

Oh, I just realized that the person with the original note would have to be able to make copies and designate them as uncopyable after that. It would be nice if they were automatically numbered so they could be like numbered art prints. And at some point the original note could be made uncopyable so no more could ever be made and it could say "Original" on it and be like the original of a painting or manuscript.

OK, I know I'm dreaming, but still....

[Okud]

You might as well drop the idea, there is no way you could prevent someone with basic html knowledge to make a copy

[nitefyre]

You might as well drop the idea, there is no way you could prevent someone with basic html knowledge to make a copy

Aye, that would've been my second point- pain in the ass it is to run down all the image links to make the forgery.

[kinvoya]

WARNING - RANT AHEAD!

This is why Cantr just doesn't quite work for me as a society simulator. It's impossible for anyone to be truely creative except as a writer (and some pictures which seem to have a lot of trouble getting put into notes) and it's impossible for anyone to actually make a living selling things. Thus, no real businesses. There isn't really anything to strive for in Cantr except luxury vehicles and power.

I have 15 chars, all 24 years old and under, and they all have all the material possessions they need to live a comfortable life. Now what? Stand around, make a few new things and wait for interesting rp to break up the tedium.

*pulling hair out in frustration smiley-face*

[nitefyre]

Well simple, enforce forgery and counterfeit laws in Cantr.

[formerly known as hf]

WARNING - RANT AHEAD!

This is why Cantr just doesn't quite work for me as a society simulator. It's impossible for anyone to be truely creative except as a writer (and some pictures which seem to have a lot of trouble getting put into notes) and it's impossible for anyone to actually make a living selling things. Thus, no real businesses. There isn't really anything to strive for in Cantr except luxury vehicles and power.

You have a point - but, creativity is possible, if limited (and I get furstrated too - by the limitations that means my jeweller can only churn out the same stuff...). Anyway, what do people strive for in RL that can't (to some extent) be striven for in Cantr - power and luxury is there, so is love, safety, etc etc...

Anyway - back on topic
- I really don't like the idea of an uncopyable note - but with the case of artwork - how about the addition of a new object - a 'painting' which requires various (simple) things such as animal skin, dies and animal hair (canvas, paints and paintbrush) that is then linked to an image - and that object is uncopyable...

[Nick]

You might as well drop the idea, there is no way you could prevent someone with basic html knowledge to make a copy

Or basic copy/paste knowledge, even.

[The Industriallist]

You might as well drop the idea, there is no way you could prevent someone with basic html knowledge to make a copy

Or basic copy/paste knowledge, even.

Well, you do need to know about viewing page source if it isn't just text...

And couterfeit laws are basically useless, since you can't check the notes someone has without killing them.

WARNING - RANT AHEAD!

This is why Cantr just doesn't quite work for me as a society simulator. It's impossible for anyone to be truely creative except as a writer (and some pictures which seem to have a lot of trouble getting put into notes) and it's impossible for anyone to actually make a living selling things. Thus, no real businesses. There isn't really anything to strive for in Cantr except luxury vehicles and power.

...or maybe some motivations belonging to the character rather than the world as a whole...like desires for: loved ones, knowledge, freedom, ideological victories, or self-importance.

And about the limits of creativity...since cantrians don't normally see pictures, I don't see why they should have any interest in pictures of things. Writing's a much more natural medium for expressing anything (except pure information, like maps).

And you can make a living selling things, in theory, at least. Any inability is the fault of the business person and their prospective market...not the game.

I have 15 chars, all 24 years old and under, and they all have all the material possessions they need to live a comfortable life. Now what? Stand around, make a few new things and wait for interesting rp to break up the tedium.

That means to me that your characters started out as empty people and never did grow a motivation. There are plenty of people like that IRL, but you probably don't want to start all your characters with the potential to wind up there.

[kinvoya]

I'm not even going to argue about the desire to create pictures. For goodness sake, have you ever seen pictographs? Do you think those people were inspired to draw because they were shown drawings by martians?

You can't have any real businesses in Cantr because nobody really needs anything. There is no drive to purchase anything that chars can't get for themselves except very, very expensive things like cars.

The only real need is food and anyone can get that for themselves unless they are in an area without any food at all. Sure you can rp lots of needs but unless they apply to every char in Cantr they aren't really needs they are desires.

I didn't mean to imply that getting stuff is the only purpose of Cantr lives. But needing and obtaining stuff is the driving force of economics and right now Cantr has no economics...only a weak bartering system.

[The Industriallist]

I'm not even going to argue about the desire to create pictures. For goodness sake, have you ever seen pictographs? Do you think those people were inspired to draw because they were shown drawings by martians?

No...I would imagine, though, that the ability to see images (not drawings/pictures) was a key aspect...which cantrians quite obviously don't have in general. I mean, honestly...no one knows what anyone else looks like! (on the silly theory that people have characteristics not in their descriptions...)

I didn't mean to imply that getting stuff is the only purpose of Cantr lives. But needing and obtaining stuff is the driving force of economics and right now Cantr has no economics...only a weak bartering system.

Well, to begin with that's contradictory...a barter system implies that there are economics.

Your talk about 'needs' shows that you're missing a principle of economics: what matters is everything that people have the least desire for, not what they 'really need'. That's what trade, industry, and such work on. Not things actually required for life, as a rule. After all, you don't actually need that much IRL either...

There's a good drive to purchase things because cantr does, to a limited degree, have comparative advantage in it's economic system. The vast majority of characters simply don't have the means to make a bowstring, for instance (takes a building and 3 machines...). All the finer tools and every weapon above the bone spear requires significant capital before you can make it.

For emperical evidence that commerce can be feasable, I have an increasingly successful merchant going. Without debts (explicit or otherwise) to anyone he'll likely have an iron shield and sabre soon, while keeping enough goods to stay in business.

The problem with economics in cantr seems to me to be poisoning by laziness. A large majority of characters would rather do what they're told and take what they're given than go to the effort of getting themselves a better deal.