Eliminate Combat skills

Out-of-character discussion forum for players of Cantr II to discuss new ideas for the development of the Cantr II game.

Moderators: Players Department, Public Relations Department, Players Department Trainee, Programming Department, Development Monitor, Resources Department

User avatar
Doug R.
Posts: 14857
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:56 pm
Contact:

Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Doug R. » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:24 pm

Before combat skills -> all characters are equal. Players never complained.

After combat skills -> characters are unequal, players value warriors over non-warriors, players constantly complain.

Simple metric. Let's go back to what people were happy with.
Hamsters is nice. ~Kaylee, Firefly
Mitch79
Posts: 928
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:15 pm

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Mitch79 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:30 pm

I think I have one character that might suffer if combat skills were changed. But it's a change I'm willing to deal with. I never did like the combat skills to begin with when it was first changed over. I would be more than glad and willing to go back to no combat skills. I like the idea.
User avatar
Doug R.
Posts: 14857
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Doug R. » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:34 pm

I have one in particular that would go from being special to not, but his life is meaningless now anyway.

If nothing else, we could eliminate the skill for newspawns, and for everyone else, eliminate the bottom half of the range, so that everyone would at least be efficient and of normal strength. That seems like a reasonable compromise, since strong/skilled characters would still have an advantage, while the weak wouldn't be as weak.
Hamsters is nice. ~Kaylee, Firefly
User avatar
Arenti
Posts: 2814
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:31 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Arenti » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:35 pm

My first reaction would be: no way!!! But it would be making things more fair, but also more limited. It does sound like a step back.. It would also make the weapon system of heavy weapons and bows not count any more. Or would with this strength still exist? I'm in conflict with myself about this. But mostly now thinking that it would at least cancel out some suicidal newspawns who aren't good in fighting so get killed off.

I'm going more towards this being a good suggestion. It's certainly a more fair way.
There is no rule that says I can't post as much I want. I asked my lawyer.
User avatar
Doug R.
Posts: 14857
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Doug R. » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:37 pm

Arenti wrote:It would also make the weapon system of heavy weapons and bows not count any more.


Weapons could be re-diversified for their application, instead of diversified for their skill.
Hamsters is nice. ~Kaylee, Firefly
User avatar
Arenti
Posts: 2814
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:31 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Arenti » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:40 pm

If this would happen, at what level would the combat damage be for lets say someone who's an expert and uses a crossbow can do 60 damage. I take it then, that the maximum amount of damage will be reduced overall?
There is no rule that says I can't post as much I want. I asked my lawyer.
User avatar
SumBum
Posts: 1903
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:57 pm

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby SumBum » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:43 pm

An overhaul of some kind would be nice. If a quick fix would be pushing anyone awkward and novice at fighting up to efficient and eliminate those two levels of skill, then go for it. At the very least, it would reduce the gap and even the playing field a good deal without a total disruption.
I don't know karate, but I know KA-RAZY!! - James Brown
User avatar
Greek
Programming Dept. Member/Translator-Polish
Posts: 4656
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Kraków, Poland
Contact:

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Greek » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:49 pm

Making people equal sounds terrible, but maybe it's the only way to fix the system...I hope not.
Now many newspawns start the game with hitting himself to see they are strong and if not they want to be killed.

If nothing else, we could eliminate the skill for newspawns, and for everyone else, eliminate the bottom half of the range, so that everyone would at least be efficient and of normal strength. That seems like a reasonable compromise, since strong/skilled characters would still have an advantage, while the weak wouldn't be as weak.

It sounds a bit unfair for new players, but second part (deleting weaker skills) sounds quite good. Now I can't imagine a successful leader who is weak and awkward fighter, because one strong bandit is able to drag into his ship/do everything he wants. In RL weak people can have skilled guards, but it's Cantr...
‘Never! Run before you walk! Fly before you crawl! Keep moving forward! You think we should try to get a decent mail service in the city. I think we should try to send letters anywhere in the world! Because if we fail, I’d rather fail really hugely’
Cogliostro
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:05 pm

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Cogliostro » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:55 pm

Sometimes you need to step back a ways before taking the big jump forward.

Bold suggestion!

Although, the gap (random skill variance between characters) people talk of narrowing actually always needed drastic increasing, not narrowing.

How about completely removing all attacking from Cantr? Meaning, not even annoying note-thieves could be killed in our game, only indefinitely locked up. On the plus side, precious elder characters will no longer be subject to violence, no more idiocy like hit-and-drag tactics, weapons become just like clothes, a decorative RP item.

Pirates can RP attacking cities, because niether attacker or defender could really be killed.
Last edited by Cogliostro on Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Doug R.
Posts: 14857
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Doug R. » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:57 pm

Greek wrote:Now many newspawns start the game with hitting himself to see they are strong and if not they want to be killed.

The only way to fix the system is to make other skills valuable, which they are not. When you only have two valuable skills, it's natural that players will want their characters to possess them.
Hamsters is nice. ~Kaylee, Firefly
User avatar
Arenti
Posts: 2814
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:31 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Arenti » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:58 pm

I think the way the combat system is, it's already unfair. I still rather see combat change from fast pace to slow pace but I guess that's not possible.

But yes bringing damage down closer together by removing combat skills would make things better but certainly not solve the problem.

Drastic increasing to make things more unfair. Yeah great idea.
There is no rule that says I can't post as much I want. I asked my lawyer.
User avatar
Sunni Daez
Posts: 3549
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:33 pm
Location: ~A blissful state of mind~
Contact:

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Sunni Daez » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:01 pm

Cog, that will never happen,

I agree with Sum, at a minimum remove the bottom 2 levels, only for the fighting, nothing more. Or make the skill for fighting level more efficiently. I had one that sparred daily, her skill never raised, that is absolutely crazy. Give people a chance to raise the skill, then the complaints won't be so bad.
Image

Run...Dragon...Run!!!
Cogliostro
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:05 pm

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Cogliostro » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:06 pm

Suppose you did remove the combat skill factor. Now people will cherry-pick their chars for strength instead. Or are we considering to get rid of that too?
Last edited by Cogliostro on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Doug R.
Posts: 14857
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Doug R. » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:09 pm

Strength and fighting are both combat skills, so yes, they'd both go.

I would support drastically increasing the speed at which combat skills raise.
Hamsters is nice. ~Kaylee, Firefly
Cogliostro
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:05 pm

Re: Eliminate Combat skills

Postby Cogliostro » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:13 pm

I would argue strongly against futile attempts to "narrow the gap" by only removing some skill levels. Firstly, it's inconsistent with the rest of the game where those skill levels are present. Secondly, this gap only has gameplay meaning as long as chaotic imbalances are created. Without those everything is going to go even more stale than already it is.

What people ultimately are crying about is that those variances are randomly assigned at startup. They have a point there, why should it be random? Can't we think of anything better than that?
Last edited by Cogliostro on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Return to “Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest