Combat Rewrite II

[Joshuamonkey]

by the way can you drag yourself in any of the suggestions?

I think if the person being dragged helps, the dragging should be instant without any help needed, except in suggestions 1 and 2 if the person being dragged is in combat.

[SekoETC]

Under Suggestion 3, the pirates could hit and run, just as they do now. They would get some wounds, which may be too severe to be fully healed right away. They might attack fewer people so as to avoid unnecessary risk. There is still an incentive to have the element of surprise, but it doesn't make risk close to zero, as it is under the current system.

At first I was thinking "but a lonely pirate couldn't kill anyone even though they could flee directly after hitting because hits are instantly resolved". Then I started thinking, when it says one hit per day rule is cancelled if the victim hits back, does this also apply to auto-retaliation? If it does, anyone auto-retaliating with an ineffective weapon would practically be signing their own death sentence. If one hit per day rule was still in effect as long as the player hasn't manually hit back, I don't think auto-retaliation should count, except maybe if the opponents are roughly equal. If only one hit per target was allowed while the targets are offline, people would have to use a group to attack in order to kill someone in one docking, and it does make sense that a group would have the chance to kill someone fast.

[Joshuamonkey]

when it says one hit per day rule is cancelled if the victim hits back, does this also apply to auto-retaliation?

It has to be a manual attack back. It should probably be worded differently in the suggestion.

[Mykey]

I agree 10 people should be able to kill around 1-2 people, it`s not that farfetched of a concept. In any reasonable time scale.

I really like the idea of mutiple attacks once the defender has hit back and basically accepted a duel. At the defenders desrcetion A real battle can start.

I`m not so sure I like the limit of healing foods. If massive stores of healing foods can be depleted through warfare, then that only goes to balance the economy out and make them more sought after and valuable.

At the same time eating 8 Kilos of something, when characters survive on 200 grams or less a day seems a little insane. So I`m conflicted between the realism benefit, and the game balance, and the possibility to extend conflict, and create economic demand.

I think tiredness should be reduced by a third 10% a swing instead of 15%, I also think it shouldn`t effect dragging or anything at all for that matter until 80-100% Then any effects kick in, and you have to rest.

Is this game still setup, if you have less health, you do less damage?
This should be reviewed for possible changes if so. This is very arguable but I think someone less than 60% health should be able to put up a good fight, for a little while? Maybe when it drops to about 30% you get extremely weak?

Do people work slower when damaged? If so what`s the numbers on that?
They ought to, to some degree.

I would also like to see a 1-15% Natural healing a day from eating a regular meal. Perhaps, depending on the food to make more uses for more extravagant meals.

A way to increase base strength up to 2 levels towards "much stronger than average", would be really nice. I`d suggest a meat diet(or anything else sufficiently high in proteins.) combined with consistent "fighting" training as the mechanism. This way average strength characters could attain the highest levels with training, and the weakest could become average.

I don`t agree with the counter-hit. I think healing foods should be unlimited and the near death state should last 16 cantr hours. I don`t think the equipped weapons and armor should drop, the victim should have a chance to fight back, if healed. And any food, natural and healing on the victim probably shouldn`t drop either. Just the keys tools, instruments and non-edible resources. Not realistic but would make it more of a two sided conflict, rather than, screw you you`re dead.

I would really like to see armors.. to stack with the shields for higher defense
Which would probably require an adjustment of shield block values. And weapon attack values.... we can go on and on about how the program deals damage, but eventually it`s going to come down to a good balance of what amount of damage is actually being dealt and defended against.

I think the real question is how long do we want actual battles to last. And that depends on the size of the two opposing forces. One person shouldn`t stand much of a chance with 6 or more people out to get them, but 20 against 5, the 5 should be able to do some nice damage before getting wiped out killing atleast 1-2 of the 20. Still a relatively short battle the 5 fleeing or dying before signifigant damage was done. Now when we get into larger forces 20 vs 10 I would expect the 10 to kill 4-6 minimum possibly even going person for person. When we get up to large equal forces it could and should go either way.

Unlimited healing food could make these battle long and complex. And eventually it will run out and be a highly sought after commodity.

[Chris]

Unlimited healing food could make these battle long and complex. And eventually it will run out and be a highly sought after commodity.

We already have unlimited healing food. It is valuable, but some people have stockpiles of a gazillion onions and scrambled eggs. Fighting should be fixed on its own terms, not subordinated to the problems of the economy, which requires a lot more changes than will happen here.

[Mykey]

Unlimited healing food could make these battle long and complex. And eventually it will run out and be a highly sought after commodity.

We already have unlimited healing food. It is valuable, but some people have stockpiles of a gazillion onions and scrambled eggs. Fighting should be fixed on its own terms, not subordinated to the problems of the economy, which requires a lot more changes than will happen here.

It`s a small step in the right direction though. And what better way to get rid of these stockpiles of healing food? Fighting is related to everything and everything relates to it. Otherwise the battles just stay very short affairs instead they could go on for days or even years.

What we don`t already have is unlimited violence. The more violence the less healing food the more dangerous and costly it becomes. If we can fight more, rest more efficiently, and stay alive longer, we can have much more complex battles. Instead of the one-sided dominant affairs which a lot of people seem to have something against.

Then it will come down to who can produce the most stuff. Tipping the scale in the favor of towns as opposed to hit and run piracy.

[Addicted]

Then it will come down to who can produce the most stuff. Tipping the scale in the favor of towns as opposed to hit and run piracy.

Unless you loot the town and take the stockpile and there are so many empty towns now with locked up goodies and I can't see this trend reversing soon as player numbers go down. More to go about, with fewer players and it will take a while for this to be used up.

[Mykey]

Then it will come down to who can produce the most stuff. Tipping the scale in the favor of towns as opposed to hit and run piracy.

Unless you loot the town and take the stockpile and there are so many empty towns now with locked up goodies and I can't see this trend reversing soon as player numbers go down. More to go about, with fewer players and it will take a while for this to be used up.

A much longer while if the use of it is restricted.
An increase in the number of possible attacks a day, will increase the amount of healing foods being used.
A more engaging combat system just may pump those player numbers up.
And yes raiding the stockpile is feasible, but so is stopping the raider(s), because the defender would have all the necessary opportunity to heal.

[*ono]

I think we shouldn't give healing in the near-death state a 100% of succeeding. My idea would be that the more healing food you eat the higher your surviving chance will become up to something like, lets say 95%. In real life you won't either have a 100% succes rate with the best of medicine.

[Joshuamonkey]

I think we shouldn't give healing in the near-death state a 100% of succeeding. My idea would be that the more healing food you eat the higher your surviving chance will become up to something like, lets say 95%. In real life you won't either have a 100% succes rate with the best of medicine.

I don't think a comparison to real life in this case is enough to excuse killing those 5% or more of characters. At least someone else will have to give them the healing food, so they actually require someone else's help to live.

[viktor]

i voted for the current system
i looked at all the systems and cannot see one i could tolerate.
the closest is number 3 except one huge flaw

"- The target of a dragging project is informed about the attempt."

i am completely wholeheartedly against this.
EVERY! character i spawn, seeks a locked door to test drag random people to give a strength estimate, otherwise it is IMPOSSIBLE to legitimatly write a char description that includes anything about their physique.
remove this and i oculd possible switch my vote to #3 or at least find it tolerable

face it, if a char is to be dragged off, someone is either strong enough to radoll them or there is a group ready to team up and carry you off in seconds.

[SekoETC]

At least currently it's possible to drag yourself to find out your strength and fighting skill discreetly. It might be more interesting if instead of someone initiating or joining dragging on you had only a random chance of producing an event, rather than 100%. That way people could still secretly measure other people's strength but with a risk of getting caught. Or - if instead of an event, it would be visible either in the character description or on the projects page. That way you'd have to be suspecting something and check instead of being automatically informed.

[Doug R.]

EVERY! character i spawn, seeks a locked door to test drag random people to give a strength estimate, otherwise it is IMPOSSIBLE to legitimatly write a char description that includes anything about their physique.

You know how strong you are right after spawning. Strength is not something you need to reveal with combat.

[viktor]

EVERY! character i spawn, seeks a locked door to test drag random people to give a strength estimate, otherwise it is IMPOSSIBLE to legitimatly write a char description that includes anything about their physique.

You know how strong you are right after spawning. Strength is not something you need to reveal with combat.

i've had 'weak' characters able to drag 35000+ grams and 'strong' chars unable to drag so much as 20000 grams, the strength we are shown for our own chars has absolutly NO bearing whatsoever on this. in some cases a 'weak' character can single handedly drag a healthy 'strong' char. trust me i know the strongest char i ever had in the 7 years i've played was 'weak'

however Seko mentioned something about possibly having it visible in the char description that you are dragging so-and-so, that i could accept

[Snickie]

viktor, your dragging concern is already mentioned here.

As for dragging, as somebody (too lazy to scroll back and look at who) mentioned, if we had a list of people we've ever met, we could form three lists: people who are "trusted" and will succeed in dragging you on first attempt without help UNLESS severely damaged, people who are more "eh" and will have the same effect dragging has now, and people who are "untrustworthy" and you will actively try to fight back when they drag you, making it much more difficult for them to drag you. People you just meet would be automatically placed on the "eh" list, and you would be able to change that if you wanted.
As for notification, obviously the "trusted" list would generate an event because (unless severely damaged) it would succeed right away. But the "untrustworthy" list, regardless of whether or not it succeeds right away, would generate an event for the dragee always. People on the "eh" list would have a random chance of generating an event unless they succeed right away.
If people from different lists join the project, the list status of the drag-initiator would be assumed.

However, I feel like this could be interpreted as promoting automation, which is something that many players here don't want.

Interpret it however you want.