Combat Rewrite II

Out-of-character discussion forum for players of Cantr II to discuss new ideas for the development of the Cantr II game.

Moderators: Public Relations Department, Players Department, Game Mechanics (RD), Programming Department

Which system do you like the most?

Suggestion 1
9
10%
Suggestion 2
14
15%
Suggestion 3
48
51%
The current system
21
22%
They're all terrible (please propose an alternative system)
2
2%
 
Total votes: 94
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Doug R.
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Combat Rewrite II

Postby Doug R. » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:49 pm

Suggestion 1 wrote:1. Initiating attack is counted as starting a kind of project. It doesn't prevent you from attacking more targets, but you can't work on regular projects at the same time. Its default duration is 8 hours.

2. The target of the attack is frozen. The target can't move, make progress on projects, regenerate energy or access its inventory until after the combat is resolved.

3. The target can choose to end the project and the frozen state prematurely (resolve it). It can either choose to defend or remain passive (e.g. for suicide). If it defends, all current means to prevent damage apply (dodging the attack aka missing the target, chance to prevent damage with the (optional) chosen shield).

4. Combat is resolved with the stats (health, tiredness) both the attacker and the defender had when combat was initiated. If multiple attacks need to be resolved, the next attack is resolved with the stats following the previous attack.

5. When resolving an attack, the target gets the option to start an immediate counter-attack. An immediate counter attack is resolved the same way a regular attack is, but also uses the stats when the original attack was initiated. If multiple attacks need to be resolved, the next counter attack is resolved with the stats following the previous attack.

6. If the target chooses to forfeit the immediate counter-attack, it is protected against another attack by the same enemy for the duration of the original project (8 hours after initiation) or until the target chooses to perform a manual counter-attack, move, join a project, drop or give items, or eat healing food.

7. If the target of an attack leaves in a vehicle, the attack is automatically resolved. The target defends regularly with its best shield. (The possibilities for abuse are severly reduced by the above rule.) If the attacker leaves in a vehicle or is successfully dragged, the attack is canceled.

8. In order to attack people or vehicles on the road, the attacker has to be able to match the defenders speed. If he can't match the speed, he is unable to intercept the vehicle. When combat is initiated, both parties stop moving.

9. If one person manages to kill another person, the victims' possessions (except clothing) end up in the killer's inventory, possibly in a special container. If this exceeds the killer's carrying capacity, he is unable to move until he drops the stuff he doesn't want to keep. If the victim is in a location the attacker is not able to reach (locked vehicle) the possessions end up inside the said location.

10. When a character is killed, they enter a "near death" state. In this state, their items can be taken and they can be given items. Those in a near death state can only eat food and talk. After two days, if no healing food is eaten, the character in a near death state will die permanently. Even after eating healing food, the minimum amount of time to be in a near death state is one day. Characters in this state can be killed instantly.
Optional: Use of negative health to define the difference between near death and permanent death.

Optional:
Guarding: Those guarding the target have to resolve combat with only the first of the original attackers. The attacker will see that they're attacking someone else instead and can choose to withdraw (without regaining tiredness) or to try to attack the original target again. If there are multiple guards, each guard can take on one attacker, in order of who attacked first versus which guard has the highest fighting skill. If one attacker tries to attack the target multiple times, each guard will initiate combat with that attacker.

Dragging sub-rules:

A. Dragging is a regular one-on-one combat project, performed instead of a regular attack. All rules from above apply unless specified otherwise. There would be a "hit-and-drag" option.

B. Dragging automatically succeeds after 8 hours unless the target resists the attempt.

C. If the target resists the attempt, then the target receives an amount of tiredness proportional to the attacker's strength.

D. The target can choose which characters can drag them instantly without resistance. Also, dragging will be instant if the target chooses not to resist or assists in the dragging.

E. If the target's tiredness reaches 100%, the target is dragged successfully.

F. The target of a drag can make an immediate counter attack. The counter attack is resolved either as a normal attack or is immediately resolved when the original target is successfully dragged. A counter-attack would cancel the dragging.

Suggestion 2 wrote:- When a character attacks someone else, both characters will be 'engaged in combat' for a fixed period (like 1 day). They will both be at the location of the defender.
- Neither character can move, work on a project or eat healing food during that period.
- The duel will be resolved after the fixed time, irrespective whether the defender reacted or not (this avoids stalling).
- The duel is not a single blow, but a fully fought battle, ending in a decisive result. The attacker hits first, the defender reacts, etcetera, until a result is reached. Damage is inflicted immediately upon the blow, so the character taking the initiative has a big advantage.
- The result depends on the intentions of attacker and defender (both can choose before the duel is resolved): pin down (and tie down) the opponent, incapacitate the opponent, kill the opponent, successfully flee the battle at some stage.
- Of course a battle will cause considerable fatigue for both sides.
- Immediately upon resolving the battle both characters are free to act again (when still able to).
- A character can be engaged in multiple duels at a time.
- A few new concepts are introduced: fleeing battle (the character 'hides' and cannot act for a fixed period after the resolution of the duel or be attacked), pin/tie down a character (the character cannot move or attack until freed, but is conscious; his belongings can be ransacked, he can easily be dragged), an incapacitated/unconscious character (same as pinned, but unconscious, will revive after some time), initiative (the character acting first in the duel).

Additional options:
- Weapon speed (a dagger can be used quicker than a long sword or a crossbow).
- Weapon defense factors
- Armor
- Preemptive range attack (by the attacker and/or defender), followed by melee combat using hand-to-hand weapons.
- Standing guard (kind of a project activity), which gives the defender the initiative rather than the attacker!
- Guarding another character (the guard must be attacked first before another attacker can reach the guarded character).


Suggestion 3 wrote:- Weapons and shields (and armor) are equipped RPG style. When a person attacks another character, the defender immediately counter attacks. Damage is applied to both parties depending on their current equipment and stats.

- People can give order to attack people who are currently not present (but were previously). The attack is then carried out the next time the target is in reach.

- People with 0% health enter the near death state, which would make them drop their inventory and render them unable to do anything but speak and notice events. If not healed within a certain number of days (1,2,3?), the character dies.

- The target of a dragging project is informed about the attempt.

- Daily healing and energy regeneration capabilities will be limited.

- The one hit per day rule is canceled if the victim attacks back.


Text in read was added to clarify a misunderstood feature.

Since many people seem to like everything about suggestion 3 except the auto-retaliation part of it, I will ask them to vote for suggestion 3 anyway. If it's chosen, we will take it back to the GAB and present several variations of it for people to vote on, some with and without auto-retaliation.
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Armulus Satchula
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Armulus Satchula » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:17 pm

I like suggestion 1. My question is about the near death state. Another character can choose to instantly kill them or the player can choose to instantly kill?
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Chris
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Chris » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:49 pm

I am not crazy about any of the proposals. All of them address some limitations of the current system, but they introduce new problems. For example, 8 hours is a long time to wait for a sleeper to check in.

I would prefer the following:

1. You should have a choice of defensive postures such as (a) retaliate, (b) block, (c) flee, (d) tackle (prevents attacker from changing locations for a time). It can be changed. Combat is still resolved instantly, but the attacker faces immediate risk.

2. You can specify a limited number of people as allies. If someone attacks your ally, your defensive posture is triggered. Maybe allow a separate defensive posture for helping allies (e.g., block for yourself and retaliate for allies).

3. There should be a separate mechanism for sparring and playful hitting.

4. People should have a small chance to get past a lock without breaking it. Maybe allow one attempt per day, with 5-15% chance of success, affected by relevant skills. The chance could be higher for buildings like shacks and vehicles like bikes.

5. Healing per day should be limited. There should be a small additional amount of natural healing per day when resting.

6. I like the near-death state of Suggestion 1.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Vega » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:00 pm

If I've understood...
I prefer the second one, but I like the near-death stuff from the first...
I'll better wait before giving my vote :wink:
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Joshuamonkey » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:59 pm

Vega wrote:I prefer the second one, but I like the near-death stuff from the first...

The second option can, and should, feature the near death state. It would be "incapacitating" the character, and even if the killer chooses to kill instead of incapacitate, the killed character could still last a day or two before dying.
^ edited
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Vega
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Vega » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:02 pm

Yes, and that's why I don't know what can I vote... Suggestion 2? Other? :?
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Arenti
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Arenti » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:11 pm

I wonder about something. What if people use more than one forum account, they can vote more than once? That seems weird.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Joshuamonkey » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:13 pm

The second one is my favorite one, but I'm the only one voting for it right now. :( So I might end up leaning toward one of the other two. Edit: Now I'm not the only one.

Arenti wrote:I wonder about something. What if people use more than one forum account, they can vote more than once? That seems weird.

The GAB may be the ones deciding in the end.
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Arenti
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Arenti » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:18 pm

Ah okay. Also
Doug R. wrote:- People can give order to attack people who are currently not present (but were previously). The attack is then carried out the next time the target is in reach.


That sounds to me like something that certainly doesn't belong in Cantr at all.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Joshuamonkey » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:29 pm

Arenti wrote:
Doug R. wrote:- People can give order to attack people who are currently not present (but were previously). The attack is then carried out the next time the target is in reach.


That sounds to me like something that certainly doesn't belong in Cantr at all.

To me it does. It doesn't make sense for people trying to attack someone not to see them and be able to attack them in time just because they don't click fast enough, or aren't logged on.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Andu » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:32 pm

That bring the "locked in a house and run in and out hitting people" and "giving a good beating to the thief newspawn pillaging house" situations in mind.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby BZR » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:34 pm

3rd is epicly good.
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Mars
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Mars » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:12 pm

3 [...] People can give order to attack people who are currently not present (but were previously). The attack is then carried out the next time the target is in reach.


3rd option is good, but this point is too big automatization, I think. Do we have robocops or terminators? If we want to automatize something, maybe just add automatic healing with medicaments from character inventory?
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby *ono » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:21 pm

I've two question about the suggestion number 2.

1. - A character can be engaged in multiple duels at a time. Does this mean each character exchanges a blow after eachother or will one duel be completed befor the second starts?

2. Will training be one of the attack options? I don't like to incapacitate my opponent each time I want to wack him with a pillow.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby oxyquan » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:53 pm

Doug R. wrote:
Suggestion 3 wrote:- Weapons and shields (and armor) are equipped RPG style. When a person attacks another character, damage is applied to both parties depending on their current equipment and stats.


That means automatized counter-attack? A little lame in my opinion.

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