Remove dragging mechanic for dragging people.

[Drael]

Why is this mechanic even here? Whats the beneficial function? Its actual effect is to simply provide time advatnage to whomever wakes up first, and nerfs the combat system, as if it needed more nerfing.

Alternatively drag attempts could resolves in potentially:

A) Damage
B) Massive fatigue, such that it can only be used infrequently
C) The dragger being dragged to a location pre-set by the draggie, using a new "auto-drag setting".


You could also require subduing before a drag is possible. This could be a strength contest of sorts that inflicts "subdue damage" rather than actual damage. Difference being the damage wears off by itself quite quickly, making so only one drag is made per successful subdue. (Simulating actually restraining someone)

But I prefer just getting rid of it. (dragging people). Its kinda dumb.

[Addicted]

Why is this mechanic even here? Whats the beneficial function? Its actual effect is to simply provide time advatnage to whomever wakes up first, and nerfs the combat system, as if it needed more nerfing.

Alternatively drag attempts could resolves in potentially:

A) Damage
B) Massive fatigue, such that it can only be used infrequently
C) The dragger being dragged to a location pre-set by the draggie, using a new "auto-drag setting".


You could also require subduing before a drag is possible. This could be a strength contest of sorts that inflicts "subdue damage" rather than actual damage. Difference being the damage wears off by itself quite quickly, making so only one drag is made per successful subdue. (Simulating actually restraining someone)

But I prefer just getting rid of it. (dragging people). Its kinda dumb.

Dragging for non combat reasons in integral to the game, considering time differences and sleeping patterns of players. In such a slow paced game, we need to move people sometimes.
-To move someone who has been attacked (animals or human)
-To a vehicle if group is moving on
-To put sleepers somewhere safe or guard their belongings
-To subdue prevent damage from crazy newspawns
-To jail law breakers
-To prevent damage to equipment
Just to name a few...

[Drael]

Well, sleepers can select "trusted draggers" then. Solves that. And you can just kill or threaten to kill non-compliant criminals.

From a conceptual point of veiw, should it really be easy to just pick someone up and take them somewhere, especially if they resist? Doing that multiple times, without so much as getting, kicked, punched, dragged yourself, stabbed or at least very tired kinda makes it look like its as easy as frying an egg.

I dont really seee those as reasons for keeping the combat dragging as is. If dragging were at least harder, it would add far more realism to those criminal situations, and "trusted draggers", would solve the other problems....

It more than nerfs combat, and really makes detaining prisoners a little too easy. Why not just fix the travlling thing sepertely, and then dragging itself can be nerfed (just kill, or threat to kill instead), or make it much harder, as in my subdue, tirdness, damage or counter drag suggestions.

If there was an actual wrestle and struggle, would be kind cool dont you think?

Its hard to think that any benefit could outweight how combat is a hide and seek affair of dragging people into locked buildings....

[Addicted]

Well, sleepers can select "trusted draggers" then. Solves that. And you can just kill or threaten to kill non-compliant criminals.

It more than nerfs combat, and really makes detaining prisoners a little too easy. Why not just fix the travlling thing sepertely, and then dragging itself can be nerfed (just kill, or threat to kill instead), or make it much harder, as in my subude suggestion.

If there was an actual wrestle and struggle, would be kind cool dont you think?

Its hard to think that any benefit could outweight how combat is a hide and seek affair of dragging people into locked buildings....

No, most of my characters would not kill, some couldn't easily. Besides being easier to lock criminals up then kill them, it's more humane. Also, many locked up have reformed and become model citizens and may not have if hit or killed. It would deter new players, who spawn and run amok as they know no better, if they were killed so quickly with no second chance.

[Drael]

SO you think, killing or detaining a character should require nothing more than a locked room, and 1-3 awake people. Dont you think thats a bit unbalanced? It amounts to _the same_ as killing them, because it allows an extra days attacks at minimum....Actually killing them, even with max weapons is ironically harder, than subdueing a fully armed enemy person.

Personally, if I were to try and drag a full armed person, into a room and lock it, it would be somewhat harder and riskier.....

Nerfs the whole system, completely. Or do you disagree, you think combat should all be about simple drag and lock rountines?

[SekoETC]

I think dragging works well enough because it generally requires several people to cooperate, it's less unbalanced than some other parts of the combat system. It would be complicated to make things work better. Thus it's probably not going to get changed, but here are some ideas in case it was:

People should have some way of sensing if people are going to attack them, and since asking for cooperation is done in free form speech, people should have a chance to get alert status if their name (or a part of their name in case of multi part or long names) gets mentioned even in a whisper. It's the so-called cocktail party effect.

People should have a chance to flee or squirm out of dragging.

People should have a way of fleeing from attacks (including entering a building or leaving down a road or entering a vehicle and then picking a road or undocking). Or perhaps a person would just get a fleeing status without defining where they went, in which state they would be untouchable for a day but also couldn't hit others. During this day they could do things like go traveling or sailing and on the next travel/sailing tick, they would get extra progress based on how many hours ago the attack happened (since it would assume they had been fleeing all that time).

People should have a way of auto-defending themselves.

People should have a way of hiding within a location, increased by certain terrain types and vegetation, the presence of buildings, and decreased by other terrain types such as desert and tundra.

It should be possible to restrain a person without moving them, and actually moving a person between locations should be more difficult than tackling someone on the spot.

It should be possible to restrain and retrieve people from roads - it's a great flaw that currently you have to kill someone if you can't talk them into surrendering.

It should also be possible to hide in the side of the road, again with terrain multipliers or penalties, but your travel wouldn't progress if you went hiding and it would take a while to "return" to the road.

People should also be allowed to specify trusted individuals who would be allowed to lead them into other locations, although a list of trusted buildings/vehicles could be specified and targets outside the list could cause suspicion, or alternatively there could be a list of mistrusted locations.

[Piscator]

People should have some way of sensing if people are going to attack them, and since asking for cooperation is done in free form speech, people should have a chance to get alert status if their name (or a part of their name in case of multi part or long names) gets mentioned even in a whisper. It's the so-called cocktail party effect.

That would be a bit pointless as it would be pretty easy to beat. You'd just have use a nickname or "you know who" and the person in question would never notice.

People should have a way of fleeing from attacks (including entering a building or leaving down a road or entering a vehicle and then picking a road or undocking).

People should have a way of auto-defending themselves.

People should also be allowed to specify trusted individuals who would be allowed to lead them into other locations, although a list of trusted buildings/vehicles could be specified and targets outside the list could cause suspicion, or alternatively there could be a list of mistrusted locations.

This would introduce a lot of automatition and make the game a character simulator rather than a society simulator. I'm not sure that we should go that road.

My preferred solution would be to delay the dragging for a day or until the target had a chance to respond (by attacking, trying to break free etc.). This would include being able to pick multiple targets, so you wouldn't have to wait one day per person. This would also imply that the draggee would get notified as soon as the dragging is started.

[SumBum]

One of my biggest frustrations with another game right now is that it has no drag/carry function. It can seriously impede RP when someone is in a location you don't want them to be in and the player is offline. There are plenty of non-combative reasons for dragging that would make subduing or getting damaged by dragging someone else very unacceptable to RP. There's more to the dragging mechanic than only combat.

Not being able to drag someone might prevent kidnap-killings, but you're also going to reinforce killing as a reprimand for petty crimes. Law enforcement will be at the mercy of the criminal: "Pretty please, Miss Wood Thief... Step inside the jail so I don't have to kill you?" A lot of my chars will toss someone into jail just so they don't run away before my char has a chance to explain to them what they've done wrong and how to correct it.

I'm not saying that dragging works perfectly. Just don't overlook the "good" uses for it by focusing too much on the "bad".

[viktor]

dragging is fine, lets say you're in a big fight and you need to drag people and hit people, chances are even with a group against a group you can't drag everyone everywhere intended. nerfing the drag mechanic will either make this a cushy cushy world that nobody can really perform the greatest human passtime of war. or it will make it more of a brute savage, kill on sight i will pwn you hack and slash every petty note thief kinda game. thus obsoleting every prison in the game.

[Drael]

My preferred solution would be to delay the dragging for a day or until the target had a chance to respond (by attacking, trying to break free etc.). This would include being able to pick multiple targets, so you wouldn't have to wait one day per person. This would also imply that the draggee would get notified as soon as the dragging is started.

This seems like a simple and agreeable solution. The dragee gets there chance to either attack or attempt to escape, the surprise tactice and "drag everyone" tactics would be minimised, but its utility for captive, prisoners etc would remain. For travel, or room moving, it would simply require waiting one day.

It would in affect be a similar treatment to what attack damage and hits per day is getting, where the action is being trying to be spread over the course of 24 hours.

Its not war, or prisoners thats the problem here, its the lack of real actual strategy and conflict in a manner that is both semi-fair and exciting. Locked doors, and dragging takes alot of both of those out of combat. Im all for combat. In fact id even opt in things like bleeding to death after massive injury, permenant injuries at random, single blow deaths (very rare), and such if we had a combat system that wasnt already nerfed...I love griity, detailed, mortal combat systems, not that cantr will ever have one ike that, but thats not the point..

Wrestling someone into submission, if they are armed, should not be some task like taking out your luandry, there needs to be some level of contest, as with injury. Otherwise, as a means of taking people out, it is then superior to injury. Hence why people always get thrown in locked rooms. Its a work around to the primary combat system.., and to a persons ability to defend themselves.

Plus it destroys any flow, or enjoyment of actual combat, and if it remains in place when they put in the new lower damage values and greater hits, it will become central to all lethal combat, ie unbalance even more..The idea is, to get away from stealth based rule nerf powergaming, and back to actual normal combat...

[EchoMan]

The combat system (including dragging) is going to be overhauled. It is currently being discussed in GAB. The intention is that combat and dragging should be more turn/project based as everything else is in this game. That's all the details I gan give at this point.

[SumBum]

The combat system (including dragging) is going to be overhauled. It is currently being discussed in GAB. The intention is that combat and dragging should be more turn/project based as everything else is in this game. That's all the details I gan give at this point.

I realize this is being discussed and this point may have already been brought up but I'm going to say it anyway.

Is there anyway dragging can be made instant? Meaning, if 1 person is dragging another I can see that taking awhile. But if you have 10 people carrying 1 it shouldn't take an hour or more. Maybe there could be some magical (yet reasonable, ie: 3-4) number of people participating that can make dragging instant?

[Piscator]

Dragging is instant.

[viktor]

*sighs* this is of great concern,
combat seems to be fine, you can only hit the same target once a day and get a lot of tiredness, i cant see it as anything but perfect
dragging, if in war you have any heads up you know the tactic to keep yourself safe, in terms of regular law enforcement it will be very impossible to detain criminals because they will commit the crime you go to drag them as they're in the act and they run while you wait for the dragging tick 2 hours later. this will make the stuff a room and bounce in and out to assault a town tactic the unbeatable chief of the game. i don't see how we can make dragging which at least half the time is a teamwork activity a project/turn based thing without making running in and out of buildings the same which if we did, the game would die
i hope it's not too... unfathomable an overhaul, could lose a percentage of players if it's not.... easy to adjust to. me included

[SumBum]

Dragging is instant.

I wasn't referring to how it works now, I was addressing Echoman's comment that combat/dragging would be changing to a turn/project based event.

The combat system (including dragging) is going to be overhauled. It is currently being discussed in GAB. The intention is that combat and dragging should be more turn/project based as everything else is in this game. That's all the details I gan give at this point.