Non-homgenizeing

[Alladinsane]

Is that a word?

I am curious as to why any invention is instantaneously known in all corners of the world. If it is a systemic problem, then I understand and it could conceivably be more work for our already strapped staff. Anyways, here is a germinal suggestion and I looked 3 pages back and didn't see it repeated, my apologies if this is a repeat.

** What if new 'inventions' were presented in a relatively anonymous manner to the dept that makes the decisions on this sort of thing. For example only: hand held radios <---not the point, stick any particular invention in here.

1.Player A sends a wiki-style presentation to the proper dept and then it goes up for approval or gets rejected etc. He must be an expert in the skill necessary to create such finished product, this might cut down a bit on frivolous suggestions. It would be anonymous -only- in regards to other players be aware that it exists. If it is rejected, then place it on this particular forum.
2. If the presentation and product are approved, only player A can produce such a product until such a time as player B is able to observe the product in action. At that point player B can try to produce the same thing because he has a knowledge of its existance. Or player C (Probably a Blackrock) might kill player A and take his 'hand held radio' back to Blackrock forest where it might be reverse engineered etc. Eventually this product/idea will saturate enough of the world that it can be added to the wiki and become universal knowledge.

The ever so brief advantages of certain techs has been part of 'society' since there was a society. Bronze, iron, radar, jet power, nuclear power, steel, types of weapons, armors etc, the examples can go forever, they all created temporary advantages to whomever possessed them.
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In the interest of brevity, and knowing that I might be challenged to contribute more should such a thing be suggested, I will keep this at medium length.

Be well

[returner]

Firstly, this sort of thing has been suggested several times before, but perhaps not in this unique manner.

So you're saying that all new thought-up machinery should be sent to a department for approval? Once it's accepted there, can anyone else use it? If so, doesn't that make it pointless? If not, won't that make a huge list of unique machines which no one will know about if the guy dies? This will put a huge impossible strain on an already thin staff.. I don't see any benefit or any practical implementation.

To achieve your original goal of having to 'learn' how to do things would require a removal of the public wiki entirely, which would probably result in general community negativity.

[Alladinsane]

My apologies if it was previously proposed, I checked back 3 pages and would have searched if I could have thought of a decent search term.

My proposal was that the 'invention' exists within the 'ether'. But early models, prototypes, what have you, would be only fixable to the person that 'invents it. Even if the inventor dies with that knowledge, the product would not cease to exist. It would be ideal if a model of said item could be reverse-engineered by another 'expert' in that field. If no product exists it gets sticky; though decent roleplaying could end up bringing about 'notes' or other drawings and add them to the wiki. I recall that Leonardo Da Vinci left behind drawings of helicopters and tanks, albiet not to the standards that they eventually assumed.

But as far as sent to the dept for approval, isn't that what already happens? At least proposals are made and I *think* that the dept fills in the details; how much iron, how much cotton, etc. This would place the burden of design on the designer (redundant much?) and the dept could apply thumbs up or thumbs down or even be more explanatory if they desire...i.e. "didn't work, needs more research'...or they could just reject it outright if it involves more programming and/or implementation.

I did mention the buried staff and that was a reason I was reticent to even bring this up. You guys already do so much and I feel no right to ask anything more than the fine service we are already getting. Hackers notwithstanding of course, but I only blame the hacker for what the hacker did. (okay...now the redundant is getting out of hand)

I also don't believe this has to interfere with the wiki as it documents all of the knowledge that is universal and eventually as we continue to try and advance technologies, all of the more obsolete ones would be documented. I think that once said inventions reach a certain saturation point, they can be published by basically just c/p'ing the original accepted proposal. They aren't using steel objects to this day in some of the areas of indonesia or the amazon basin, but with this idea, they would eventually be just to keep from overly unbalancing the game.

It was just a thought and probably more work; in an ideal world I think it would be reflective of our own advancements, but cantr is not earth and I realize and accept that. I extend thanks to those who work so hard for so little in recognition and/or payment at times. If nothing were to change, I think I might still be addicted!

Be well

[CrashBlizz]

I really like this idea. Its quite logical and would certainly add to gameplay. I don't mean to bash it but I can't see it working for several reasons:

1. Players play multiple charcters. I have 15. The chances of one of mine being an expert in any one skill is really quite high, therefore I can suggest anything.

2. If I thought of something as a player, and even if only my charcters could build it, would really make it that secret? My characters are well spaced out and if they all built it then several towns on every island would instantly have access to it anyway.

3.Language groups are not really mixed at the moment. If some russians come up with a great idea that really improves gameplay then why should everyone else wait for it? What it nobody ever meets a russian? (I have no idea how isolated the russians are by the way)

4. What happens if a player comes up with an idea that's already been thought of and added? Do they get it too or are there.... copyrights?

[Alladinsane]

I thought it was logical also, but as far as gameplay, I am throwing out a cry for help. Heck, if anyone knows how to do it, take it and run with it. Specifically regarding your questions Crash:

1. Sure, you can suggest anything that is a logical extension of the already existing tech that your character already knows. Nothing would change as far as the (dis)approval process, only the initial saturation of the technology. I see a whole lot of suggestions and rejected suggestions...they take up two forums themselves. I don't think this will reduce workload on volunteers, in fact, I would anticipate it increasing it enough to create a new staff position. Thats a big minus imo.

2. Knowledge of a product is not necessarily knowledge of how to manufacture it. I drive a car nearly every day, but I cant build one, and I am pretty darn crappy at even repairing one, especially these newer models. You could steal a steel axe (tongue twister!), but might not be able to duplicate the forging technique...at first.

3. The language thing mostly suffers from having a staff member who has the time to interpret and disseminate the proposed product. But language barriers have caused differences throughout history...would you rather have a panther or a T-34? A V-2 or a nuke? Steel or iron? the examples go on forever where not only different cultures, but different localities within cultures have created different tools of their chosen trades. Obviously this would be way too many products in the game environment, but being the first to discover taking our primitive cars in Cantr to rudimentary vehicles that can float on air would provide huge travel and military advantages for example. <--Substitute your own unique idea's there.

4. I don't think that we should go into the evil practice of copyright law and intellectual property etc. I think that if someone successfully 'invents' a product that another character has already invented, its a 'simple' matter of just sending a note with the original finalized proposal. But this leads to another problem and Its probably a big one...how would someone be able to construct this limited availability product from menus on the website? Beyond my pay grade (and the pay grade of most of the volunteers!).

This makes sense and is a bit more 'realistic', but I doubt it will ever get further than this thread. If anyone wants to run with it and has some programming access and knowledge ( I know thats a sore subject right now), run with it. It would improve the game in my opinion by adding an additional strategic element and maybe give the potato farmers something to do. But till such a day as that is possible, lets just enjoy Cantr as it is I guess. If it were all that bad, we wouldn't be here. Thanks everyone for all you currently do!

Be well

[nateflory]

While the idea of 'invention' is interesting, and would add a bit of variety and uniqueness to things, My only thought is how to code or limit that so only that character (and nearby) knows how to make it.

From what I understand of the way projects work, if something is added to the game, it shows up in the database, and thus is available to anyone trying to manufacture something. Unless we add a "location" field, or "inventor" field and cross-reference that with current character's location, or something, it might get needlessly complicated to impliment.

Interesting though, just potentially unwieldy.
(edited for typos)

[Alladinsane]

Thats what I figured. Maybe someday.

But thanks for your consideration and clarification.


Be well

[nateflory]

Don't get me wrong, I really like this idea in a game-player way. I'm not really a ProgD member (have not been for years, and asked to have that unflagged in my profile) So I'm not fully aware of the coding used to handle project completion. From what I vaguel;y remember though, adding a machine would show up everywhere as it currently stands.

Doesn't mean that can be changed! I like the suggestion, if there's a fairly straightforward way to make it work properly.

[EchoMan]

(have not been for years, and asked to have that unflagged in my profile)

Wish granted. /Your personal genie.