Altars as storage items

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SekoETC
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Altars as storage items

Postby SekoETC » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:09 pm

Separate from the religion thread, I would like to see altars made of different kinds of materials. They do not (necessarily) need to have a function, if someone wants to pray or preach by an altar then they should just RP it.

But it should be possible to place resources (and items if that can be easily programmed - after all, an altar is basically just a table so dimensions wouldn't necessarily need to be taken into account. It's no big loss if some items are hanging halfway off the sides, and some limitations can be set with the weight limit already.

Types of altars:
    Primitive stone altar- kinda like the ones built in the old testament.
    - Material: 2 to 5 kilos of stone
    - Capacity: around 2.5 kilos.
    - Days: 0.5 (it's just a neat pile of stones really)
    - Tools: none
    Plain wooden altar
    - Material: 2 to 4 kilos of wood
    - Capacity: around 3 kilos.
    - Days: 1
    - Tools: hammer
    This item might be set draggable since it's rather light, like a speaker's box.
    Plain stone altar
    - Material: 5 kilos of stone
    - Capacity: around 3 kilos.
    - Days: 2
    - Tools: trowel
    Woodcut altar decorated by detailed ornaments
    - Material: 6 kilos of wood
    - Capacity: around 4 kilos.
    - Days: 8
    - Tools: hammer, chisel, carving knife
    THIS ITEM CAN ONLY BE BUILD INDOORS because rain would ruin it.
    Gilded wooden altar engraved with an intricate design
    - Material: 7 kilos of wood + some outrageous amount of gold (a 3-digit number), maybe a bit of iron as well to keep it together
    - Capacity: around 4 kilos.
    - Days: 10
    - Tools: hammer, chisel, mallet, carving knife
    THIS ITEM CAN ONLY BE BUILD INDOORS because rain would ruin it.
    Massive stone altar covered in complex chiselled patterns
    - Material: 8 kilos of stone
    - Capacity: around 5 kilos.
    - Days: 12
    - Tools: chisel, mallet (it doesn't need a trowel because the whole thing is made of one block)

(The adjectives for the complex altars may be reassigned, I kept switching them around and trying different combinations.)

BTW, do we have marble ingame anymore? I seem to remember hearing it was taken off or something... I've seen a marble house on one of the Swedish islands but never seen marble. Anyway, if it's still available somewhere, a marble altar would be a nice option as well.

Extra functionality: visibility of contents
This is optional in case it would be too difficult to program. But it doesn't sound like a complicated thing, simply have the resources indented or surrounded by a table cell or a div element. The amounts would not be visible when the objects list is viewed, only the names of resources.

The buttons would be the empty this storage and put stuff in this storage buttons, but I think the alt descriptions should say "Put things on this altar" and "Take things from this altar".

Also if they could be listed under furniture even though they're technically storage items, that would be nice. Kinda like the armoire.

Anyway, I've written this in so much detail that you cannot say no. At least add them in as non functional furniture, and I'll be happy. More abilities can be added later on, right? And it shouldn't be complicated to have them as storage items like the armoire. Pleez... *puppy dog eyes*
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Postby Marian » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:15 pm

Yes please! :D This goes right along with the post I was thinking of writing, but you already did all the work coming up with details and examples.

Also, okay, I know this one won't be implemented, but what I'd love to see is an altar that you can actually use to destroy resources in, or maybe even items one day when containers could hold them.

Just use some extra wood to light a fire, (and yes I know you technically lots of resources aren't flamable, but can we please forget realism for the sake of coolness for once?) and then WHOOSH! Instant sacrifice to the gods. :)
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Re: Altars as storage items

Postby Sicofonte » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:53 pm

SekoETC wrote:Pleez... *puppy dog eyes*


Yeah, pleeeeeeeeeez :roll:
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Postby T-shirt » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:47 pm

I don't understand why an altar should be able to hold stuff.

I do like the suggestion of an altar though. Just drop the stuff near it.
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Postby Antichrist_Online » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:16 pm

The idea of it holding stuff, is just so that you can tell what's on an altar and what isn't. Besides I hope they get used as display cases, market stalls, etc. Not just religious things.
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Postby Sicofonte » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:54 pm

And one more thing, it could be quite useful for allowing free-requirement projects on the altar.


I mean:


You put things into the altar.
You start a "Burning sacrifice project" (only possible in a room with an altar), employing wood, in a fixed rate or depending on the weight inside the altar (ProgD issue).
All the stuff inside the altar get burnt (just dissapear or become ashes, as you preffer)

Voilá!
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Postby viktor » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:41 pm

psssst, marble *hint* *nudge* Seko make a marble one
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Postby T-shirt » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:58 pm

So, if I understand correctly, an altar is another path to implemting a display case and a waste disploser at the same time.

I think a display case is a good suggestion.

I have my doubts about waste disposers.

But I definately think an altar should just be an altar. If you want people to place offerings, make a building where offerings can be left. If you want a waste disposer, suggest a waste disposer, or suggest burning projects.
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Postby SekoETC » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:35 pm

You wrote:
"Just drop the stuff near it."

There is no "near" in Cantr!!! Everything on the ground is at the same level. It never pops into the mind of a non-informed newcomer that things lying on the ground might be there for a purpose.

Just like AOL said:
"The idea of it holding stuff, is just so that you can tell what's on an altar and what isn't."

The function is truly that of a display case. But most of the suggestions for display cases include a lock and unbreakable glass. These items would be just platforms where social norms or religious beliefs would (hopefully) be the lock that keeps people from taking stuff. Instead of hiding things, they make things stand out from the regular stuff just dropped on the floor.

If you build a house for offerings, an average person is still going to see everything under Objects as lying on the floor in disorderly fashion.

If the display code gets included, it could be extended to shelves and tables. (Why do people build tables in real life? - To keep stuff away from the floor! And do the things turn invisible when placed on a table? - NO! In fact they are even MORE visible!)

Anyway, guys, even though you're all excited (exept T-shirt), try to keep the note burning out of this topic, ok? This is about Altars as storage items. If you want to suggest Altars as burning platforms, start another topic.
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Postby Marian » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:37 am

Being able to put stuff on tables would make sense too. In fact even if we didn't get altars right away, a stone table you could put stuff on could double as one in a pinch.

And hey, what better place to display food then a kitchen table? Actually goes very well with the whole wooden plate thing, I think. :)
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Postby wichita » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:35 am

The whole display thing sounds like a nice functionality. Separate and apart from that, I see little problem with adding altars as furniture. They shouldn't be any more OOC than thrones. (Speaking of which, we should still get around to implementing a throne of bones for some of those Aki chieftans to perch themselves on. :wink: )
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Postby Nosajimiki » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:17 am

since most alters would be in churches I woulds assume, things on the ground could be easlly RPed as on the alter need be so I dont see a need for the storage ability, especially since it mostly just makes since to pray at them, not nessissarly used as a point of sacrifice... but she did do the puppy eyes, no proper gentleman can say no to the puppy eyes :wink:

Another way they could work is that they should technically be a cooking machine, and the "cooking" they do would be a "sacrifice" ie: take fuel and food (meat, wheat, cod, etc.) but yeild no result. That way they can be practically used for offering sacrifices without becoming a general purpose incenerator and without needing any special new code for dealing with holding of sacrifices... human sacrifice would still need to be RPed though :twisted:
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Postby Sicofonte » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:10 am

Nosajimiki wrote:human sacrifice would still need to be RPed though :twisted:

:cry:

T-Shirt wrote:So, if I understand correctly, an altar is another path to implemting a display case and a waste disploser at the same time.

Not a waste disposer, but a burning place. For religion purposes, not for cleaning the room :evil:

SekoETC wrote:If you want to suggest Altars as burning platforms, start another topic

Ah, of course, you want this thread only for you, even if I was the first one that suggested the altars (at least, this week), then... :P
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Postby Wilmer Bordonado » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:56 am

IMO, devotion might have a huge cost in Cantr World.

I don't share Seko's altars of 5k of stone, since there will be probably a massive proliferation of them, and in the end, they won't be nothing else than a picturesque detail in game.

Nevertheless, I do like the idea of sacrificies and burning things. But why doing them onto little altars and not onto huge, giant, monuments?

Sphinxs, obeliscs, pyramids, archs, mausoleums, statues... etc.?

So these monuments could have some "projects", as machines have.

For instance,

Pyramid
Building cost:
100000g of stone
Dynamical name feature (as the Coin press): "RD Pyramid"

Projects:
1."Burning 3k of wood plus 8k of onions, giving a stone hammer in sacrifice"
2."Burning 2k of cotton plus 3k of rubber, giving a bone spear in sacrifice"
etc...

Results (randomly, in a 85% negative and a 15% positive)
RD Pyramid hasn't been satisfied with your gifts...
RD Pyramid has been satisfied with your gifts and gives you an *axe*, *scimitar*, etc.


Wilmer B.
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Postby Nosajimiki » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:58 am

problem with this idea is that if sacrificing yeilds something then Cantr has a provable devine/mystic aspect which, to my undertanding is never accepted.

secondly, alters themselves should not take more reources than the churches that would likely house them IMO. They are mostly to get across the point, "hey you're in church", and if usable for burnings of sorts, then that's just an RP bonus.

There probably should be some kind of gargantuan monoliths that could also be made outside as either town landmarks or for religious purposes:

Oblisk=20,000 stone
Triumful Arch=30,000 stone
Sphinx= 60,000 stone
Small Pyrimid=50,000 limestone
Pyrimid=100,000 limestone
Grand Pyrimid=200,000 limestone
Collosus=10,000 bronze?


these are just a few ideas, but this is going off topic.
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