Industrial Sized Machines

[The Industriallist]

And no, Nick. If these machines are implemented, they MUST have a minimum work force. The larger the machine, the more buttons and knobs to turn. The more hands that will be needed.

This isn't a powered machine IRL...no buttons or knobs required.

I don't see that as such an important characteristic...If you can poke programming into giving you the ability it might be worthwhile though.

I'm not quite clear on the advantage of this restriction. Can you clarify why it's a must? Especially when a large crew is not a must for a galleon? (if you don't mind being vulnerable to boarders...)

[formerly known as hf]

Please

don't let this idea dissappear just because there's no way to programme to make a minimum number of required participants...

[Anthony Roberts]

Once vehicles are split into parts, they will be changed, and some vehicles will be required to need a minimum crew. But this has nothing to do with this topic, does it? Well, yes it does. But the minimum number of people is the ONLY thing it has to do with it, haha.

The larger the machine, the more people that can work at it. One single person would be unable to operate a machine of this size, and would be unwise as well. Putting an 8000 gram Iron project on a smelter, you'd need a lot of people to get it done in a decent timeframe. However, one person would take forever, let alone on a LARGER machine with say, perhaps, a 20000 gram Iron project. Sure, the machine is supposed to be more efficient, but no matter how much more efficient, one person is still going to take a long time.

The more the merrier. Just agree with us for once

[Birdsall007]

Time for my two pennies worth, on the idea of minimum numbers of workers, surely the way that dragging is implemented could be used here?

[formerly known as hf]

The more the merrier. Just agree with us for once

I do agree, and I'd like it to require more people to work on it - but I don't want to see this shelved under 'this'll get done in the distant future once game mechaincs have been tweaked enough'

I wanit now... *sulks*

[Nick]

I don't see that as such an important characteristic...If you can poke programming into giving you the ability it might be worthwhile though.

I'm not quite clear on the advantage of this restriction. Can you clarify why it's a must? Especially when a large crew is not a must for a galleon? (if you don't mind being vulnerable to boarders...)

Well put.

The larger the machine, the more people that can work at it. One single person would be unable to operate a machine of this size, and would be unwise as well. Putting an 8000 gram Iron project on a smelter, you'd need a lot of people to get it done in a decent timeframe. However, one person would take forever, let alone on a LARGER machine with say, perhaps, a 20000 gram Iron project. Sure, the machine is supposed to be more efficient, but no matter how much more efficient, one person is still going to take a long time.

Not as well put.

You seem to be forgetting that even if working alone is allowed, it will still be half as fast as with two people, et cetera.
That fact is already taken into consideration.

[Anthony Roberts]

I was just saying that with a minimum amount of people, it would be both realistic and mean that the efficiency part wouldn't have to be hard coded, if ever we were to tweak the mechanics.

[The Industriallist]

I was just saying that with a minimum amount of people, it would be both realistic and mean that the efficiency part wouldn't have to be hard coded, if ever we were to tweak the mechanics.

Wasn't the whole point that, for some high cost and maybe inconvenience, you get something that produces metal (or just iron, either way) at a greater labor efficiency?

I can't grasp what that efficiency not being 'hard coded' would mean.

[Solfius]

well, considering that a normal smelter can take an awfully large project anyway, not making it any more effecient than a normal smelter would make it rather pointless

[Anthony Roberts]

You're all interpriting what I'm saying... wrong... on purpose, I think, really.

[The Industriallist]

You're all interpriting what I'm saying... wrong...

Likely.

on purpose, I think, really.

No. I didn't think you meant it the way I interpreted it, but I can't think of any other way to. Maybe you could just say it again so it makes sense?

[nitefyre]

I don't really see what the big deal is of putting off industrial sized machines when towns have the industrial capacity for them. Most towns are well suited to use their smelting furnaces, or making a second one where necessary. I've yet to see a town need TEN furnaces, or the amounts needed. It is something that can be put off, to when the proper programming is ready for it.

And really, my opinion on who would be the ones to use it are those with stockpiles of old raw iron going to steel.

Of course, somebody's just going to point out some town which actually has gone to build TEN fricken furnaces.

What we need are simpler machines,

[Lumin]

What we need are simpler machines,

I don't know if you were joking or not, but I agree. Considering the technology level of most Cantrians (ones who were not lucky enough to be around in the days of mining iron or to inherit things from older characters) what I bet many would prefer to see are simpler, more flexible tools and machines made out of a wider variety of materials. Complex machines should of course offer a huge advantage, but it should at least be possible to do more things with lower-end materials that are simpler to get, even if it's not efficient.

In real life humans adapt to their surroundings; if you were stranded on an island or something, would you say, "Oh darn, I don't have any iron hooks, guess I can't make a fishing pole...hmm, no shovel either, guess a fire pit is out of the question."

(Sorry, I know this is probably way off topic, it's just something I've been thinking about and nitefyre's post set me off... )

[kinvoya]

My impression is that TPTB don't want things (like machines) to be simple. For some reason it would throw the entire planet of Cantr out of orbit or disrupt the space-time continuum if simple, poor people were able to make a small loom and weave small amounts of cloth for themselves.

On the other hand it's great for the wealthy to get bigger, better, gimungous machines so they can pour out the iron and steel for weapons, expensive equipment and luxury items. And by all means lets make sure that the giant machines can be run by one person cause Cantr is all about community.

I get it that they're trying to encourage cooperation by making things harder to build but what it's really doing is creating a huge disenfranchised poverty class and what the gigantic machines will do is create an even more powerful, controlling wealthy class.

[The Industriallist]

That's what degredation ought to do something about, if it'd ever be allowed to work. Yoiu can't be really rich without a lot of help if your fancy toys keep breaking down, so you hire a lot of people. Maybe some day the hirelings will figure out that they're actually worth more than 40-odd grams of carrots a day.