Increase caused tiredness by dragging an alive person

[IHaveNoLegs]

I think you're missing the point that this probably all took at least a month of preparation though

the event that caused this topic to even come up must have been orchestrated by absolute pros

Basically, this. For everyone who feels dragging is already too easy, go ahead and try to recreate this event if you have a char with a violent side. Seriously, do it right now. Hell take a week. That should be more than enough time because it's just sooo easy right? Let us all know how that works out for you.

[Fieger]

After massacre in Vlotryan there were bunch of players who complains about loss of characters...and they create many ideas how to make killing spree harder in future. None of this ideas was implemented.
Increasing tiredness while dragging will make Cantr more sweet, more peaceful. And that makes this game borring. I saw how many sleeping chars get in "active mode" when massacre in Vlotryan begins and I liked it.
IMO this suggestions looks like a child who lose a game wants to change rules to win a game next time...pointless. We got rules, everyone knows them and everyone knows how to use them. Don't change rules because you loss your precious char. I prefer Cantr more dark with more danger and more mysteries to solve than Cantr with everyone smiling and collecting carrots.

P.S Catpurr I suppose that if characters in this settlement were more active before this event they will easily find out this jail in jail.

[catpurr]

the event that caused this topic to even come up must have been orchestrated by absolute pros and should not result in a drastic and potentially more detrimental effect on game mechanics.

Well first at all, considering there was ZERO roleplay, its hardly the "pros" that we want in cantr, don't we? I agree with that other comment, at least a boring farming town had some roleplay here and there which is far more interesting than. X drags Y. X hits Y. bla.

in fact how can a person play the role of a doctor or a very intelligent commander if every drag attempt against a locked door takes so much strengty they need to wait a coupe hours or a dayto recover just to TEST the next person, changing the effects of dragging on strength would be a serious error and cause heavy imbalance in the game.

I don't see what the "doctor" or "intelligent commander" has to do with it. People WALK into the doctors, not are dragged into...

the absolute most would be to double the effect it already has and even that would be drastic but anything more severe and you will have a lage number of players constantly complaining, some possibly quitting and detrimental effects in game cause by it.

If it are that kind of people who can zero roleplay while massacring, goodbye I say. However yes double tireness from dragging would at least be something. 2% is really redicolously low.

the problem can be resolved in game by people reacting and setting themselves up better, congregating together in greater numbers and becmming more organised and prepaired, and being more active.

This I consider a very mood point. So we are no longer supposed to sleep RL? Cantr is a *slow* game. And suddently everything happens withing minutes and you complain that at 3 o'clock in the night nobody was active not expecting a massacre?

with all this said , please, if you change the effects of dragging on tiredness, please make it a minor change or you risk putting another knife in cant's heart.

As said, I'm not into this, "make massacres impossible", but it should be more balanced, and more interesting. For me the event showed only, in the best case two coordinated players who sacrfice one night of sleep can jail a whole town in a RL-night with it hardly doing anything about it. If you massacre a town with 12 well equipped people, and you don't want to lose a fair amount yourself you should at least need 12 well equipped people. Or have a real fight where you lose some people yourself. Its just that BOOM! everybody is dead that really sucks.

[catpurr]

P.S Catpurr I suppose that if characters in this settlement were more active before this event they will easily find out this jail in jail.

Reflecting about this (Since I can't say exactly about the log) it was more a jail in a random building. This is IMHO quite easy to set up if you have a medicore liberal town. Have some unknown go into the city. Spent a few days being friendly and then go into any building that is open and unoccupied. (many town have that). Inside you can unhurried build a room (with the ressources you brought with your self) and build a lock onto it. Then go outside, hop into your vehicle and radiocall your allies. Easy.

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All in all, why I consider dragging unbalanced. If there is a massacre I want to see more real fighting (also outside) and less dragging around. Maybe fighting is too nerfed, I don't know. But dragging souldn't be the "fix" to it.
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Also about this point, well nobody was in a vehicle or another room. If so what? Just have two guards stay in town centre and when some overloked player comes out (without being able to know anything was going up) just drag him also into the jail. And if a radio message escaped, So what? RL-comparison, was it ever possible to completly destroy a city, *noone* was able to escape and tell the rest of the world? Hardly.

[Jaxon]

In order for 2 players to be able to wipe out a town in a night, they would have to be very lucky. Every attack would have to do 50+ damage with no misses + everyone on a vehicle would have to be instantly executed + all buildings would have to be unlocked, or the 2 people would have to have the keys to those buildings so they can drag the people out.

I'm sorry you lost your character Cat, but it's easy to see that you are mad about your character; get over it. This attack would have gone on regardless of how tired the attackers became by dragging. It was obviously that well planned.

On a side note: c'mon Cat, your attempt to break down peoples' arguments to prove they are COMPLETELY wrong is pathetic.

[BZR]

The numbers still need to be changed. Good to hear your opinions, though, maybe we shouldn't make the change so drastic.

From my point of view, I have always been on the atacking side, never defending, and I would prefer to make it more difficult. Something should also be done to nerf hit'n'hide strategy.

[Fieger]

I was at both sides and I lost 5 or 6 chars during various fights. I suppose that dragging could be more harder...but not to 10% or more...5% for each dragging person is maximum. Or another proposition...add some better shields (armors?), lockpicks, windows and other stuff. I know that is harder to add, but it won't change fight.

Reflecting about this (Since I can't say exactly about the log) it was more a jail in a random building. This is IMHO quite easy to set up if you have a medicore liberal town. Have some unknown go into the city. Spent a few days being friendly and then go into any building that is open and unoccupied. (many town have that). Inside you can unhurried build a room (with the ressources you brought with your self) and build a lock onto it. Then go outside, hop into your vehicle and radiocall your allies. Easy.

And discovering this is even easier. Don't sleep and check what this unknown do in your buildings...It still your fault that you let them build this room.

[catpurr]

In order for 2 players to be able to wipe out a town in a night, they would have to be very lucky. Every attack would have to do 50+ damage with no misses + everyone on a vehicle would have to be instantly executed + all buildings would have to be unlocked, or the 2 people would have to have the keys to those buildings so they can drag the people out.

You are mixing up. 2 players in a night to drag most of the town into a jail is easy with current sesttings.

I'm sorry you lost your character Cat, but it's easy to see that you are mad about your character; get over it. This attack would have gone on regardless of how tired the attackers became by dragging. It was obviously that well planned.

Stop accusing this stupid argument to diss my position. Its unapproperiate as I told several times. I only saw it, since I lost a newspan. He was not even a year old. I don't shed a tear for him. Hardly had any personality or friends. It only showed to me an unbalanced event, and possibly its my sympathy for players who lost characters they really cared for.

On a side note: c'mon Cat, your attempt to break down peoples' arguments to prove they are COMPLETELY wrong is pathetic.

No? Breaking down arguments is commonly considered good style in usenet etc. as it shows what you are reffering to.

[catpurr]

Or another proposition...add some better shields (armors?), lockpicks, windows and other stuff. I know that is harder to add, but it won't change fight.

I Agree. If there other dimensions in suggestions to open up, let them coming!

And discovering this is even easier. Don't sleep and check what this unknown do in your buildings...It still your fault that you let them build this room.

Honestly I don't know what exactly happened. I know for a lot of other chars in many cities I can go in some vacant buildings without anybody asking.

To setup a supposevly friendly character that just wants to build him a house in a city is also quite easy. If killing a town with jail dragging is that easy. Any city should not allow people anymore unless they are highest rank to build themselves a house. This is something I would really, really hate to see, if this becomes common practice due to events like this.

[Jaxon]

Now your saying in order to kill a town of 12 people you should need 12 people? Give me a break! The Spanish conquered the Inca empire with like 100 people!

Sneak attacks in Cantr are quite interesting to observe and almost never happen already.

If you think it's so easy to drag away 12 people Cat, go ahead, try it, just as "Ihavenolegs" recommended. Collaborate with another person and say "hey I wanna drag these 12 people away", you won't get very far.

Dragging is fine as is with the current level of tiredness and all increasing it will do is make it more of a pain in the butt to drag your fat friend off your vehicle, it's not going to do much in the way of preventing an attack of the caliber cat keeps whining about.

I understand you are upset that these types of things happen in Cantr, but as someone else told you, the same thing happens in real life, and as that same person told you, there was an IC reason behind it.

[catpurr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_co ... nca_Empire

First it were 182 soliders not 100, Secondly the inca were in civil war, Thirdly there was a *hugh* difference in weapons technology. Different technologies were often the reasons of drastic battles, go and try to defend yourselves with swords when the attacker comes with guns. Its not so that the spanish dragged all of the incas into a jail. Therefore this comparison IMHO only shows what is wrong.

10% caused tiredness for dragging will not stop you from heaving your fat friend from a vehicle. If you are going around with 10 sleeping fat friends you do have a problem somewhere else.

Yes slaughtering 12 people should take aprox. 12 people. Or maybe 6 if the weaponlevel his heavily inbalanced. No and I stand with it, 2 people should not be able to drag 12 people into jail.

[Arenti]

I do agree that dragging should make you more tired. Though even two strong chars it's not always possible to drag another char especially if it's a strong char as well.

[BZR]

I've recently drag 25 chars with help of only one char. We had problems with two people, but it was enough to hit them with a battle axe.

[Arenti]

Yes that works as well. And people saying that things are being said to suggest changing the current system because of massacres. of course they have lost a char in it and that lets them make this suggestion. But isn't it so that especially when there is a massacre that it's best seen what is wrong with the system?

[Jaxon]

Cat, I really really dislike discussing things with you. I'd rather stick my head in a bucket of acid. Talking with you is like talking to a wall. It's clear you take great joy in trying to not only be right every point, but try to make others look completely wrong. Your black and white frame of mind makes debate with you completely pointless and is a testament to your stupidity. I completely understand why Bran went ballistic on you. I'm sure he's not the first person to have done it. Of course, your concrete frame of mind right now is just trying to pick apart what I'm saying so you can counter instead of absorbing anything. Your method of thinking is unsustainable and you will be unable to function in the real world when all you are focused on is proving people wrong.

I mean was your correction on the 182 soldiers necessary you jackass? When I said "like 100" it was a rough estimate. Regardless it was less than 200 people against an empire of 100,000. Take your civil war and your wiki and shove it, my point still applies.

And oh btw, there's a thing that makes you less tired. I'm sure you know what it is. The people who attacked your town obviously used it and if it took more tiredness to drag someone, they would have just made more of it if they didn't have enough already.

I still fail to see how making dragging more tiresome will prevent another attack like fatpurr is trying to do, nor do I see a point is trying to do further game measures to prevent such an attack. All this does is make life more difficult for the average cantrian in 99% of cases.