Market stall - to buy and sell like we've always wanted to.

[Marian]

An essay by Cogliostro that I liked? I...I'm confused.

[Money]

I like this idea... Whats more to say?

[catpurr]

I'm against this idea, because it does what (as far I got it) cantr is said not to do. To code social rules into code. In the universe there is no "trade" its a human invention.

E.g. one of my characters lives in area where they set up a money system based on sealed envelopes. Now your "trade vehicle" will cursh this money system, as it hardly would register "sealed envelopes from X" as a valid "price".

Trade needs to be done by the "one after the other principle" one person gives something to you, you give something back, and if that one given is a scoundrel running away you have to hunt him. In reality its no different. In a shop you also first take something and then pay at the register. Or depending on the shop you first pay, and then the casher gets you your item.

Also why a vehicle that cannot move? Makes hardly sense. Normally I'd call this a "building". And when you do a shop building. Just put in there a note telling what to buy/sell and depending on the trust of the shop either have the stuff to offer on the floow (and run after thieves not paying back), or have a backroom where you get the stuff requested.

You could even put 1g of everything you'd have for sale as "display" on the floor.

Or when I'd suggest something it be a "display case" made out of glass, if you do not have the key you can look inside but not take/put anything. So everything you got to sale, put it in the display case, and put some notes about the stuff in the display case (in RL we call it "price tags").

[bobbogum]

Great idea, what more to say?

[Elros]

catpurr, I am guessing you did not read all of the posts because a lot of your comments were wrong. The shop stall WILL move like a very slow cart.

Also, you can still do trades the old fashion way if you want. Its just when there is one of these trade booths in a town you can use it if you want.

I suggest reading all of the information(I know it is a lot) before posting that you are against it.

[catpurr]

catpurr, I am guessing you did not read all of the posts because a lot of your comments were wrong. The shop stall WILL move like a very slow cart.

Also, you can still do trades the old fashion way if you want. Its just when there is one of these trade booths in a town you can use it if you want.

I suggest reading all of the information(I know it is a lot) before posting that you are against it.

Well I read the OP attentively and skimmed through the rest. It has been suggested also to make then unmovable in that case its just plain stupid to show it as "vehicle".

Also as the cantr homepage says, cantr only codes physical objects not social conventions. Since the concept of "purchasing" alone is a social conventions therefore there should never be a "purchase" button in the game. Or the game making ressource to ressource trades easier than other barters.

I see this as an unnecessary complicated thing that could just as well be done with a building as a shop and as said above with displaycases as convenient way. Or just a building with a note on the floor.

About the complain that there are barter notes in some towns lying around whose seller long faded away. Well its again the job of the cantr people to keep things clean, not a job for the engine.

Also if its a booth, what kind of physical protection should stop a thief. In a RL booth I can just as well take stuff and run away, so where is the difference to putting stuff on the floor in a building? And in case you cannot take stuff from inside the booth, why the heaven shouldn't this be possible?

I'm still against the idea.

[catpurr]

With the implementation of market stalls, for the first time ever in Cantr, it would become possible to have other (trusted) characters operate local parts of your trading business ON COMISSION for you even while you are away. Why? Simply because, upon setting up what you have for sale in the market stall, you can always make a list, and write down how much iron (for example) selling all of it would have to bring in. When you return to the location (assuming your trusted associate hasn't jilted you, escaping with all the goods and maybe even the stall itself), your friend gives you the 2300g of iron you expected to make. You congratulate them on the excellent work, and pay them with 300g of iron, their cut of it.

Or why should this be impossible, you give somebody on comission X iron, and tell him to sell it as 5 carrots by 1 iron, without the need of any booth. And when you return he gives your back X-Y iron and 5*Y carrots. Simple as that. Otherwise he betrayed you.

[Elros]

Also if its a booth, what kind of physical protection should stop a thief. In a RL booth I can just as well take stuff and run away, so where is the difference to putting stuff on the floor in a building? And in case you cannot take stuff from inside the booth, why the heaven shouldn't this be possible?

Once again, read the entire suggestion before posting. If you had read it you would have seen that this booth has a lock just like all vehicles, and you could break into it and steal everything with a crowbar.

[catpurr]

Also if its a booth, what kind of physical protection should stop a thief. In a RL booth I can just as well take stuff and run away, so where is the difference to putting stuff on the floor in a building? And in case you cannot take stuff from inside the booth, why the heaven shouldn't this be possible?

Once again, read the entire suggestion before posting. If you had read it you would have seen that this booth has a lock just like all vehicles, and you could break into it and steal everything with a crowbar.

Please don't belittle me and read what I wrote also. Its a booth! It is all open at front if not locked up and inactive. Just like any real world booth nothing physical stops me from picking up the apples that are there and start taking a run. And even its stored under a counter (where one could not see it, but nevertheless) nothing physical stops me from jumping over it. The door with the lock is fine. I on the otherhand will just reach my hand into from the front and take what I want, unless I don't fear anybody running after me.

Therefore the argument once again. Either one cannot take stuff from an active booth, which I consider unrealistic/stupid. Or on the other hand if someone can I do not see what you gain by just putting it on the floor in an building.

So please before you go again. I did read it. And do not belittle me unless you read my post at least with the same attention you expect others to read the others.

[theguy]

Also if its a booth, what kind of physical protection should stop a thief. In a RL booth I can just as well take stuff and run away, so where is the difference to putting stuff on the floor in a building? And in case you cannot take stuff from inside the booth, why the heaven shouldn't this be possible?

Once again, read the entire suggestion before posting. If you had read it you would have seen that this booth has a lock just like all vehicles, and you could break into it and steal everything with a crowbar.

Please don't belittle me and read what I wrote also. Its a booth! It is all open at front if not locked up and inactive. Just like any real world booth nothing physical stops me from picking up the apples that are there and start taking a run. And even its stored under a counter (where one could not see it, but nevertheless) nothing physical stops me from jumping over it. The door with the lock is fine. I on the otherhand will just reach my hand into from the front and take what I want, unless I don't fear anybody running after me.

Therefore the argument once again. Either one cannot take stuff from an active booth, which I consider unrealistic/stupid. Or on the other hand if someone can I do not see what you gain by just putting it on the floor in an building.

So please before you go again. I did read it. And do not belittle me unless you read my post at least with the same attention you expect others to read the others.

Cantr reality ?? Anyway I see what your saying about a social concept but everything put in game is to help the players play the way they want to play. Having these booths would help gameplay and traders and benefit all players. The lock on the door just makes it work better in game so you dont have random newspawns running off with your goods and if your goods were unsafe in a booth people would be put off building them. The reason for those things being the way they are is to make gameplay better because games that are annoying for little reason are just frustrating and no fun to play.

[catpurr]

Cantr reality ?? Anyway I see what your saying about a social concept but everything put in game is to help the players play the way they want to play. Having these booths would help gameplay and traders and benefit all players. The lock on the door just makes it work better in game so you dont have random newspawns running off with your goods and if your goods were unsafe in a booth people would be put off building them. The reason for those things being the way they are is to make gameplay better because games that are annoying for little reason are just frustrating and no fun to play.

In that case make "secure transfers" and "shops" like in every other onlinegame there is. I thought cantr was different.. because it refrained from coding exactly that. Of course it comes at the same time making trading difficult, thats why all the other games made it in a traditional way...

I think the moment there is a "purchase" button anywhere in the interface it lost most of its basic philosophy.

[theguy]

Cantr reality ?? Anyway I see what your saying about a social concept but everything put in game is to help the players play the way they want to play. Having these booths would help gameplay and traders and benefit all players. The lock on the door just makes it work better in game so you dont have random newspawns running off with your goods and if your goods were unsafe in a booth people would be put off building them. The reason for those things being the way they are is to make gameplay better because games that are annoying for little reason are just frustrating and no fun to play.

In that case make "secure transfers" and "shops" like in every other onlinegame there is. I thought cantr was different.. because it refrained from coding exactly that. Of course it comes at the same time making trading difficult, thats why all the other games made it in a traditional way...

I think the moment there is a "purchase" button anywhere in the interface it lost most of its basic philosophy.

Yes but all the prices and shops are run by players, all the goods collected by players and everything done by players, meaning yes there is a more structured trading mechanic but players choose what to do with it still, it's still flexible.

[catpurr]

Yes but all the prices and shops are run by players, all the goods collected by players and everything done by players, meaning yes there is a more structured trading mechanic but players choose what to do with it still, it's still flexible.

This is true for 50% of other online games as well.

I mean its up to the development team to decide. I stand on the position. No to a purchase button in the game.

Otherwise I have explained already, I think this idea is overly complicated to what it wants to achieve. Nobody explained me what really is the difference to a building with a note on the ground, a shopkeeper and a magazine where he gets the required stuff. Or as I suggested already above, make a display case (where you can also put notes inside) Same effect much simpler, does not pollute cantr code with social concepts like "purchasing".

[Elros]

Yes but all the prices and shops are run by players, all the goods collected by players and everything done by players, meaning yes there is a more structured trading mechanic but players choose what to do with it still, it's still flexible.

This is true for 50% of other online games as well.

I mean its up to the development team to decide. I stand on the position. No to a purchase button in the game.

Otherwise I have explained already, I think this idea is overly complicated to what it wants to achieve. Nobody explained me what really is the difference to a building with a note on the ground, a shopkeeper and a magazine where he gets the required stuff. Or as I suggested already above, make a display case (where you can also put notes inside) Same effect much simpler, does not pollute cantr code with social concepts like "purchasing".

The difference has been metioned already, but to summarize it, players can trade the resources instantly and not have to wait for the other player to wake up and pass stuff back and forth, as well as barter prices. The player selling the items already has prices and all items listed and available. The player buying walks up to the booth, looks through the list, and instantly trades with the player. People passing through towns can do this and keep going. This makes trades quicker and simpler then having to wait for the other player to wake up and disscuss the trade then go to sleep, then the buyer wake up and disscuss the trade and hand him the items and go to sleep, then the seller waker up again and hand him the items in exchange.

See, it is way easier and simpler than having a regular building with items and notes in it...

[bobbogum]

Well, this kinda makes you wonder, does a ship have alock, or even a door? In RL there are nolocks on ships, they are reliant on the harbor protection to not get their boat stolen, Would all vehicles have a lock, Wooden carts? Rafts? or should we get rid those locks too?

From you posts it seems to me that you think that no-one has to be there for the stall to work, someone will be there just like on a ship which has no lock in RL.