Raw Meat Should Rot More Quickly

[Surly]

Wrapped.

Raped means something else...

[Doodle_Jack]

He didn't say raped, he said rapped. That means something different again.

It should be wrapped though indeed.

[Surly]

ive had sushi once. i hated the seweed it was raped in, but i loved the fish.

I rest my case.

[Doodle_Jack]

ive had sushi once. it was rapped in rise and seweed.

Oh, I was looking at his more recent post..... I rest my case as well.

[mortaine]

Pie, you should try sashimi, which is also sushi but does not have the seaweed. Sushi comes in many forms, but the most basic are maki and sashimi.

Maki is "roll" sushi, which has layers of seaweed and rice wrapped around a filling, like salmon or cucumber. California roll is this type of sushi. Sometimes the seaweed with be the inside layer (as with cucumber and salmon maki), and sometimes it will be the outside layer in the roll (as with California roll and many others). I find that when the seaweed is on the outside, I can taste it much more heavily than when it's inside. Sometimes you will find the rice is on the outside, but then the maki is rolled in black or orange fish roe (caviar). Yum! Often, there will be a roll with some other piece on top, like a slice of avocado or fish.

Sashimi is "piece" sushi-- there will be an inch-long strip of rice with a piece of seafood on top. Sashimi is rarely vegetarian-- it's rice plus seafood, often raw fish, but not always raw and not always fish (for instance, octopus and sea urchin are served this way... so is cooked pieces of shark meat). Some places put a layer of wasabi (hot green horseradish) in between the rice and the seafood, but not all of them do this, and you can always request it without. My favorite sashimi is salmon, followed by yellowtail. There is no seaweed in sashimi sushi, but you get a lot more of the fish flavor.

[Incidentally, the wrapped/raped spelling error is a good example of why spelling matters-- your misspelling changed the meaning of your sentence enough to confuse the reader, and it is your job as the writer to be clear. Although it wouldn't have helped in *this* case, you may wish in the future to copy/paste your posts and comments into MS Word and spellcheck them before posting. If you leave Word open when you go to the forums, it will only take an extra minute or two to spellcheck, and will make other people you find on the Internet much less likely to bait you about your spelling problems. I am a very good speller, but I know a large number of otherwise intelligent people who are not and who have to find ways, like this, to compensate for it.]

[Lumin]

Not to interrupt the sushi discussion or anything, but in response to the original topic, YES, I agree. Not just meat, though - any heaps of food just tossed on the ground should rot fairly quickly. (I imagine meat and tomatoes would go first, while things like potatoes or rice or onions might stick around a little longer.)

I think food in general is just a little too abundant and easy to get...sometimes I wonder if that's what's really keeping economies from developing. It's the one single item Cantrians actually need, yet many places are to the point where the townspeople can't even give it away, let alone sell it or bother to store it. Methinks it wouldn't hurt to trim down some of that surplus.

[Pie]

ive herd of sushami before. isint that like, fish fillets raw on a platter? served fresh? very fresh? ive wanted to try that, but noo, not one resturount servs it.

meat should start rotting in.. two days after you kill(or catch) the meat.unles you preserve it, of cours.
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pie will rule you all.

[SekoETC]

See, we have a poll now. Let's show them this is an important change.

[Lumin]

I put 75% for realism, though now that I think about it, since we're talking about Cantr where people check their characters at different times, maybe it should be fine for like two or three days first, and then start to rot at a high rate. Oh well, too late to change my vote I guess.

One person hunting for themselves is realistically going to lose a lot of the meat - they should go after smaller animals. (Unless they're just after the hide and and don't mind leaving the rest to rot, though with meat being less plentiful I imagine that behavior would start to be frowned upon in some places...)

Something like, say, a buffalo hunt ought to be a community event. Everyone could drop what they were doing to help, and then when the meat was safely preserved they'd all have enough food for a year and could focus on other things...like trading the leftovers to people who aren't as smart.

Honestly, I'd be a fan of a change like this being applied to all foods, though at different rates (bringing importance back to humble potatoes and rice?)

Realistically this should have come before the item change, IMHO - wood and bone and iron rot, but not raw meat and vegetables? Of course, for this to be feasible there'd need to be a simple way to cook most foods first.

Whether processesed or not things should rot slower in a container or building though...we'll just pretend the container is a fridge, and the building is air conditioned.

But no reason to give held food any special treatment - if no one can be bothered to cook, grow a couple of days worth or get it out of storage. (Though I imagine there will be plenty willing to cook - people are always trying to make a go with restaurants or bakeries or whatever, but with the current system they don't seem to have much success - why buy cooked food when it's so easy to pull it out of the ground raw?) And if you need a lot of food for a trip, well, people make preparations before long trips, or should anyway.

Edit: Though to be fair, if other foods start to rot those already in existence should be left alone so as not to screw over sailors. Meat's still fair game though...

[Lumin]

So did I kill this thread or what? Even if no one agrees it should at least be controversial enough to start a big argum...er, "discussion."

And we need *some* kind of discussion. (Those of us whose character's lives are very slow right now depend on the forum to get our Cantr fix.)

[kinvoya]

I don't even understand this poll. It has two different questions. 1) How quickly do you think meat should rot and 2) At what rate do you think meat should rot. But you can only vote once.

Plus, who cares?

[Lumin]

I don't even understand this poll. It has two different questions. 1) How quickly do you think meat should rot and 2) At what rate do you think meat should rot. But you can only vote once.

It's not two questions as far as I can tell. It just asks how fast you think meat should rot.

Plus, who cares?

Well, I care, and I bet a bunch of other people do too. Do you honestly think no one would have any reaction if giant piles of surplus food suddenly started disappearing and they actually had to hire someone to cook for them or import processed foods from other towns with more infrastructure? (ovens instead of firepits, etc.) I'm sure there'd be a ton of complaining at first, but this is one of those changes I think would honestly be good for the game.

Food is just no good the way it is now - it makes important things like structure and planning and trading completely unnecessary for a community's survival and breeds a population of sleepers and drama refugees.

Even if meat was the only thing changed, it'd be a step in the right direction. Though meat at the very least requires a little work before you can eat it, and it does disappear after a long time...I think the real culprit is all that indestructible food you can just mindlessly yank out of the ground. A character can literally spend their entire life doing nothing but standing in the middle of town and emoting, and as long as the player remembers to click that 'gather potatoes' button once in awhile they have nothing to worry about.

[kinvoya]

What I meant was that food rot should stay the same ( I expressed that particularly poorly). I still think the poll doesn't make sense because you can't vote for both options: what period of time should it take for food to rot and, during that period of time, at what percentage rate should it take to rot. But whatev. Maybe it's just me.

Meat piles up because trying to kill an animal is the only remotely interesting thing that most chars are able to do right now. It seems to me that the herds are getting very small to extinct in most places, for this reason.

I heartily agree that it's too easy to get food and this is the primary reason for the stagnation of Cantr rp and it's economy. But the OOC ganking of food is not the solution. Elsewhere I have suggested limiting the amount of food that can be harvested in a particular town during a particular time and the possibility for combining foods for proper nutrition to foster trade but, like everything else, there has been no response except for a few players saying "Don't make it so hard!"

I've had more than 40 chars and not one of them has ever come close to starving. Only a few have had to go without food for even a few days. There are some areas, however, on mountain tops, deserts and in remote forests where meat is the only food source and game is rare. They don't have surpluses of meat or other foods and I don't think it would be fair for them to loose what little they have.

I think newspawns should be in more perile. More of them should struggle to survive and, fairly frequently, loose that struggle. I would find this more challenging and rewarding if they actually do manage to survive. Surviving should be something to be respected, not just a given.

Because of repairs most Cantrian's have become full time tinkerers, patching up their stuff (isn't that the life we all planned for our chars?). In the little bit of extra time they have now they grow or cook food while the bodies of abandoned chars pile up.

If this keeps up, I think the food supplies will start to decrease naturally or everyone will get bored and stop playing. I never even look at the clothes or jewelry items anymore. Who has time for sewing?

I see less and less rp going on with only a few desperate chars trying to hold things together and the rest just passing time waiting for...? I dunno, a miracle? If most of their food supplies suddenly disappeared would they even care? Or would it give them something interesting to struggle for?

I guess I'm just feeling apathetic today. Sorry. I think I'll go eat a cheeseburger.

[Lumin]

I've always found desert or mountain communities to be the most interesting. They actually take a little foresight to set up, since in order to last they need at least semi-regular supply lines. Not like other towns where characters just stand outside and blissfullly graze like a herd of sheep. (Though maybe that's not a good analogy - even sheep have predators to worry about.)

Just curious, in the past (before all this saccharin-sweet peace and love and cooperation) has any group ever used over-hunting as an act of sabotage? Wiping out a forest's food source to either make people abandon it or keep them dependent on trade from your own town? Might be interesting...though I bet most players are too ecologically minded to let their characters do something like that. (I'm guilty too - even in towns with no hunting laws posted my chars keep to a four-animal rule just to be safe. I'll have to try to break myself of that habit. )

[SekoETC]

I don't even understand this poll. It has two different questions. 1) How quickly do you think meat should rot and 2) At what rate do you think meat should rot. But you can only vote once.

Plus, who cares?

If you have set time, it means all those mountains of meat would vanish three days after the change. Just vanish. There would be a message, the meat in this room / in your inventory has rotted beyond usability. Before that, the meat will probably be totally usable, like tools and weapons are usable to the point when they fall apart.

An example. If we had one day deterioration.

1234-0. You kill a rabbit using a longbow.
Now your inventory has X amount of meat.
1234-1. After one hour the hidden clock will go tick and you'll have X amount of one hour old meat.
1234-7. After 7 hours you'll have X amount of 7 hour old meat.
1235-0. After 8 hours your meat has rotted beyond usability.

Now lets imagine that you killed another animal later that day.
1234-2. You kill a cow using a longbow.
Now your inventory has
1: X grams of two hour old meat.
2: Y grams of fresh meat.
Then you add some of it on the firepit. It uses the old meat first. Or actually, you decide to leave behind some of the meat, just for shows.
1234-2. You add X-1 grams of two hour old meat on Project grilling meat..
But it's not enough to fill the project so
1234-2 You add (less than Y) grams of fresh meat on Project grilling meat.
1234-2. You add some wood on Project grilling meat.
1235-0. Some of your meat has rotted beyond usage.
You look at your inventory, there's now Y minus the amount of meat you added on the firepit of 6 hour old meat. The 1 gram of older meat has rotted away.
You look at your firepit. The meat in there is ok because it's very hot and bacteria can't multiply in such temperatures.
1235-2. Project grilling meat has finished.
1235-2. The raw meat in your inventory has rotted beyond usage.
Your inventory now contains 150 grams of grilled meat and no raw meat at all.

If this way was used, it wouldn't necessarily form groups for every hour, it might be possible for example to have groups of fresh meat, semi-fresh meat, old meat and stinky meat. Hunting results for two first hours would be qualified as being of the same age even though they should have a difference.

If there's a percentual decrease, the amount will just keep getting smaller and smaller but there'll be a little left for a longer time.

1234-0. You kill a rabbit using a longbow.
Your inventory now contains X grams of meat.
1234-1. Your inventory contains 0.9X grams of meat.
1234-2. You kill a cow using a longbow.
Your inventory now contains 0.8X+Y grams of meat.
1234-3. Your inventory now contains 0.9(0.8X+Y) of meat.
See, it's treating it all as a single bunch.
1235-3. 0.1(0.8X+Y) grams of meat.
1235-4. The meat in your inventory has rotted beyond usage.

And you know what, if meat would rot in one to few days, we could actually allow eating raw meat because it would require getting lucky in hunting every day so it would be a very unsure way of keeping yourself fed.