Pickpocketing

[AoM]

Okay here's the deal.... if you want a pickpocketing option (which i am very much a fan of) it should only be allowed on things that can fit inside one's pocket... get it?

No? Let me be clearer:

On people's character descriptions there has already been implemented a set of items that people can readily see (because they're so big and obvious) such as swords, crossbows, shields, sledgehammers, axes, pickaxes, etc...etc...

But there are also items that people cannot see on other people, things that fit inside peoples pockets: chisels, needles, keys, these are the kind of things pickpockets have a chance to steal unnoticed... pickpocketing should be limited to these things only. That way, if they're caught, the victim still has their sword handy to rip the thief a new one.

And hey, when you pickpocket someone, even if you're successful, you have no idea what you'll get! (selection is randomized)

For the bigger stuff... i think that's a whole other system... call it grappling or disarming. Very visible, just like attacking. The two people grappling cannot hit anything. Success is random. If successful, the item drops to the ground... first person to be active and pick it up wins. Obviously, passerby can intervine and hurt the attacker, making their chance of success harder. The opposite is true as well... you hit the defender, and the chance of success is easier.

I think that multiple people should be able to grapple a single target, (no more than three tho).

~AoM

[Anthony Roberts]

How can you pickpocket someone that doesn't have pockets?

The maximum carrying capacity of a character is only a few pounds, you can hold that in your hands... and if they're wearing a loin cloth, or a bikini, or 'nothing worth mentioning' (Which could be naked to some people, including me.), then they have no pockets and it would be oh so easily seen if something is taken.

Plus, might I point out, I've played a lot of games in my time, and giving players the ability to steal from other players ends up being taken away in the end (Or very VERY strictly moderated) because it causes more problems than it does help the game. Stick to killing people and taking their belongings that way... or robbing their house...

[The Industriallist]

Though there is the factor that you can't see what they have...which is an issue. If they're naked, where exactly are they concealing a dagger, stone hammer, bone knife, and file?

Other than that I'd agree they must be naked...

[SekoETC]

This topic should be split, pickpocketing has nothing to do with restraining and silencing characters.

[AoM]

Don't take me too literally when I talked about pockets... the main thing to take away is the fact that you're more likely to steal something unnoticed if it's small rather than big. ie: something that could fit in a pocket (wether or not you have one. I've seen naked ppl are carrying shields, swords, sledgehammers, bellows, crossbows, and five sets of keys... I don't even want to think about the physics of that...)

I think introducing petty theft would add to the game rather than detract... If you've got a lot of developed characters who have no need to steal, then sure, you're going to be against the idea... but there are always newspawns who are desperate to get ahead... I say let there be more interesting ways to do it.

~AoM

[The Industriallist]

In what way would pickpocketing be more interesting than having the option to take a gamble:
a% of the time you get a valuable item out of thin air.
100-a% of the time you die instantly.
The only difference is that the 'magic' gamble doesn't harm anyone else, either way.

It's on the interest level of span-and-run theft...the only difference is that it has a better chance of working. 'more interesting ways to get ahead' are more like getting some sucker to outfit you and send you on a mission, then vanishing without a trace.

[Anthony Roberts]

Split.

[TheTheorist]

The maximum carrying capacity of a character is only a few pounds, you can hold that in your hands...

The most a character can carry is over 2 stone (33lbs or 530 ounces)

And seeing as you can build several buildings with that much material in Cantr... I don't think the weight should matter...

I agree with the stealing smaller items you can't see and getting a random item. So much easier. Forget the stealing large items... if you want them just kill the person for them. You all make it far too complicated!

[Anthony Roberts]

I can carry a 20 Kilogram (Which is, uhhm, just a guesstimate, around 45 pounds perhaps?) bag in my right hand alone. So, it's entirely possible that your entire carrying capacity is in your hands.

I still don't agree with stealing from living people, though.

[AoM]

It's already been established that cantr weight has nothing to do with real life weight... Show me a sledgehammer, an axe, and a pair of bellows that weigh less than 33lbs and can be carried in one hand... I dare ya.

Industriallist>

The thing of it is, "getting some sucker to outfit you and send you out on a mission" is indeed interesting... but right now, it's the only real way to steal in Cantr, and the idea of stealing is really supposed to be so much simpler.

It's of more interest than taking up everything not nailed down and running because:
1: It has a real chance of working.
2: You have no idea what you'll get, therefore it's not like a person's going to be able to rob a person blind. (Such a thing would be called mugging and Cantrians already do that, as has been pointed out.)
3: Allows for the chance of anonymity. (Which I believe is astoundingly important for a professional thief.)

And perhaps most importantly of all, it is precisely BECAUSE it can be at the expense of other people that it's interesting. That's why your "gambling" example makes little sense. It also depends completely on your chosen target whether you get an item of any use, indeed if you get anything at all.

I think this needs to be implemented if for no other reason than to provide a way to take something from a person without them giving it to you, and without killing them. This doesn't necessarily have to be used for theft. A "sleeping sickness" character who has an important tool or key, for instance... You don't have time to wait until they wake up, if they do at all, so with this option you could take the needed item with out being a murderer...

If we can mug people, we ought to be able to pick their pockets... Another option: stealth over strength.

~AoM

[The Industriallist]

I don't know where you got the idea that the idea of stealing is supposed to be simple...stealing isn't intended to be an easy, or clearly superior, career...

Points 1 and 3 make it more effective than spawn-and-run, but not more interesting...

As for point two...why not? If at first you don't succeed, steal, steal again.

Crime where the outcome is entirely up to a random number generator in the server is stupid and uninteresting. There is no functional difference whatsoever from the perspective of the thief between pick-pocketing and the gamble I outlined. If you are caught, you die, if you aren't, you get free stuff. While that stuff is preowned, there's no way for anyone to ever tell that, or to identify you as the pickpocket. Offering that gamble would be harmful to the game as a whole, because it would encourage suicidal tactics. Spawn, pick one or two wealthy pockets, if they catch you, die and spawn another. Repeat until half the players quit in disgust.

Crime in cantr has always been hindered by the impossibility of taking something from a living victem against their will. But the structure of the game is such that any type of instant theft gets exaggerated power. And the enhancement provided by being able to do it secretly is huge...You can't do anything (much) secretly in cantr, you understand...

[Nixit]

... What he said.

[phoenixannwn]

I understand that no one wants to give another boost to the stupid newspawn thief everyone hates, so why not just make it a new skill? And you only get it at 21 years of age?
Then, the heavier an item is, the higher skilled you need to be to take it without it being noticed (like Oblivion).
And by the way, you'd be surprised at the stuff you can get away with taking off a sleeping person, both IRL and IG (well, not Cantr, 'cause we don't have that option yet).
A crossbow would always be almost impossible to steal. (If anyone ever tried to steal the Honorblade of Chorrol back from the Countess in Oblivion, you know what I'm talking about.)
Keys would be much much easier, but still have a chance of getting caught (because each time you pickpocket someone, it's kinda like rolling a die to see if you get caught or not). And even opening someone's inventory is skillweighted heavy.
Oh, and how about the higher your pickpocket skill, the better chance you have of catching somebody pickpocketing?
Like if we have person A who's skill is 80, and person B tries to pickpocket them and their skill is 50, then person's B's chances are going to be awful.
Simple and it makes sense.
Well, to me, and I could be retarded, I don't know.

[Surly]

This is just so, so open to abuse. In theory it might seem okay, but it's only a matter of time until someone figures that you stay in the mountain practising thievery with your friend, head down to the town and pickpocket the leader for a key and head off with all the stuff in that town.

Town is immediately set back 10 years, characters die off in frustration and the town dies.

Completely opposed.

[EchoMan]

If I can build chains for my keys, that would greatly decrease the chance of unnoticed pickpocketing, maybe.