Barricading Buildings

[Doug R.]

Okay, then let's increase the people limit for small buildings and vehicles or get rid of it altogether. You would then be able to squeeze six people into a shack, but since they would still count toward the weight limit, they couldn't do much more than stand and talk.

Furthermore, vehicles shouldn't be able to move while the weight limit is exceeded (or perhaps extra slow). We could thus set the passenger capacity of a bike to 2, which would allow you to enter it to remove a body, but not to use it as a tandem bike (as that would exceed the weight limit).

I wouldn't want to get rid of people limits entirely, but it does make sense to be able to fit more people inside a building than can function. We could, say, increase capacity by 2x, keep the mass limits, and then bar anything other than talking, moving, or dragging while inside (I'm eliminating attacking in addition to working on projects). This will allow free flow of traffic freeing trapped characters, but offering no protection to those that wish to barricaded.

A solution to this could be to allow a "barricade door" project that only exists if it's being worked on. Doing anything else cancels the project. It can only be performed on doors that lead to a parent location, and only works if the mass limit is exceeded. This would allow free passage out of the building, but not into it.

[Arenti]

Mine and the other char in there is being starved. As we blocked them out like they blocked us out. The healing food they had was dragged in there when someone got in and dragged it in there and got there himself. So yes my char is being starved and will be able to live for at least 2 years. Yes misusing game mechanics. lol the one of almost starving to the point of dead and then eating and then almost dying again of starvation.

[Piscator]

If you could barricade a door by just working on a project, you could cancel the project, step out, smack everybody, step in again and restart the project. That wouldn't be any different to the current situation.

Barricading can only be fair if it takes some time to (re)barricade the room.

[BZR]

Just changing the policy isn't enough, it would have to be implemented, otherwise people will keep doing it.

[Dudel]

Well I see and know of a lot of mechanical exploits (like this) which are allowed that aren't CRBs but others seem to have a problem with.

You know... an easier solution to this would be if a building reaches its max capacity you CAN'T leave. You need to drag something outside in order to exit. Which gives people outside a chance to react and is similar to destroying your barricade in order to leave via RL.

I, for one, think that would be easier then messing around with policies etc and give a new dimension to the game.

[Piscator]

Well, a changed policy would give PD the chance to counteract such exploits. This is nearly as good as a chance of game mechanics even though more laborious.

[Doug R.]

If you could barricade a door by just working on a project, you could cancel the project, step out, smack everybody, step in again and restart the project. That wouldn't be any different to the current situation.

Barricading can only be fair if it takes some time to (re)barricade the room.

It would be a lot different. You can only barricade the door to the parent location, which means you can't keep people captive in your building unless they're behind a locked door, which they can break. Once they break the lock, they can walk out freely (barricades don't work for people going out, only those trying to come in). Yes, you can still go out and hit people outside, but once your front door lock is broken, you have very limited options. Now you could replace the lock, under this system you couldn't. You're removing 100% of a barricaded character's action options. It's a significant handicap that may offset the attack advantage.

Defenders should ideally always have the tactical advantage. That's why they built castles. If you want to further neuter the advantage, you can relate barricade effectiveness to tiredness, so if they come out to attack, they'll be tired (say, % tiredness increases the building's max mass by the same % - or something like that.) That would cripple the lone defender, yet still allow a wide range of tactical options for coordinated multiple defenders, which is the way it should be.

[Piscator]

Seems a little strange that you should be able to pass a barricaded door in one direction, but not in the other.

Anyway, if a single character could still keep others from entering with a 100% probability, it wouldn't matter if he can work in the meantime or not, since he could keep himself save indefinitely. For the people outside the situation would be exactly the same.

How about this variation? A barricading project would have a certain strength, which is initially determined by the strength of the participants. In the course of a day the strength would increase to, let's say, the double amount to simulate the building of barricades, pushing a wedge under the door or whatnot. To break the barricade the besiegers would have to have a greater total strength than the strength of the barricade.
For example, if two medium strong persons would hold the door from the inside, you would initially have to muster two slightly stronger persons to break the barricade and get into the house. After a day of preparation you would need four people.
If the besieged wanted to sally out, they would have to stop the project, which would unblock the door immediately, but cost them the advantage earned by preparation.

[Doug R.]

Seems a little strange that you should be able to pass a barricaded door in one direction, but not in the other.

By making a barricade an active project, we assume that the character is critical to the barricade's success. A person inside could theoretically disrupt the barricading character and slip out. Yes, it's a bit strange, but if it works and it's balanced, strange shouldn't matter.

Anyway, if a single character could still keep others from entering with a 100% probability, it wouldn't matter if he can work in the meantime or not, since he could keep himself save indefinitely. For the people outside the situation would be exactly the same.

Not if we combine my suggestion with the ability to destroy buildings. They could knock it down. That was always intended in my suggestion.

How about this variation? A barricading project would have a certain strength, which is initially determined by the strength of the participants. In the course of a day the strength would increase to, let's say, the double amount to simulate the building of barricades, pushing a wedge under the door or whatnot. To break the barricade the besiegers would have to have a greater total strength than the strength of the barricade.
For example, if two medium strong persons would hold the door from the inside, you would initially have to muster two slightly stronger persons to break the barricade and get into the house. After a day of preparation you would need four people.
If the besieged wanted to sally out, they would have to stop the project, which would unblock the door immediately, but cost them the advantage earned by preparation.

Another interesting option. This seems to ignore the mass in the room entirely, unless the max power of the barricade depends on the mass capacity of the room. For example, a room at 100% (or more) capacity would give a 100% bonus to the barricade strength, while one at 50% capacity would only give a 50% bonus, while an empty room would give no bonus. In theory, then, once you have your reinforced barricade, it would be logical to be able to step away from it, leaving it at reduced power. It would then be logical to jump back on it and boost it back to it's original, reinforced value. This would also remove the need to limit barricades to doors to parent locations only. It would also change the captor/prisoner dynamic if prisoners could barricade doors to their cells, preventing their captors from entering (of course, they could then be denied food as punishment, etc).

Oh, barricades shouldn't be limited to unlocked doors.

[Marian]

Just throwing an idea out there, but how about Doug's original suggestion, letting anybody barricade a door as long as that's the only thing they're doing, with the addition that it takes twice as many people working actively to break the barricade? So a lone attacker (or defender) could be stopped by two people, but a more organized group would get harder and harder to stand up against. Anything more than four barricaders and most towns would be in serious trouble.

No idea if that would work, but whatever the solution is, it probably needs to stay pretty simple, and should still leave barricading possible in some form. I'd rather leave the current system as it is then see it removed entirely.

[Arenti]

Just throwing an idea out there, but how about Doug's original suggestion, letting anybody barricade a door as long as that's the only thing they're doing, with the addition that it takes twice as many people working actively to break the barricade? So a lone attacker (or defender) could be stopped by two people, but a more organized group would get harder and harder to stand up against. Anything more than four barricaders and most towns would be in serious trouble.

No idea if that would work, but whatever the solution is, it probably needs to stay pretty simple, and should still leave barricading possible in some form. I'd rather leave the current system as it is then see it removed entirely.

Yes I do like that idea. But is it still going to be that my char will get out? As I don't like to be made happy with a dead mouse.

[Piscator]

I think Marian's simplification should work pretty well. The important point is that no protection should be 100% effective. I'd like to see the time factor to make barricading more of a protective measure than an offensive tactic, but I guess you could block a door pretty effectively within seconds with your foot, wedge, chair or whatever. I think we can also probably leave the fullness of the room out of the picture as you likely wouldn't use all of it anyway. For the sake of simplicity we could just assume that there is something to block the door with.

[Marian]

For the sake of simplicity we could just assume that there is something to block the door with.

Dude is leaning against it really hard and that's why he can't work on any projects. Makes sense to me.

[Piscator]

Yeah. Your body is definitely something.

[KVZ]

I think I have better solution than switching off weight limits related to persons (one Polish player said he would stop to play if this implemented) in buildings, and forcing players to not use this "feature".

Solution is simple (I hope that for ProgD too). Lets make draging stop at 100% or above when building is full, and wait till someone will go out. Then draged char is in one sec draged to this building/room. It is better then making players to break the rules by writing scrips which would try for their chars enter blocked building when it is chance (I heard about such cases, and it is really against the rules and against the sprit of game - but if we do not do something people will try to do it again and again).

There is one flaw in this solution. When someone can afford building lock in such barricaded building, then he can sit in open building and then go out for a moment locking building. This would stop possibility to break lock as building is still open when he sit inside! So there should be 2nd fix, eg. possiblity to break lock of building while it is open but full *shrugs*.