Fixed item life

[Pyskozaur]

I really like this idea. Voted for "YES!"

[B.M.T.]

It's very good idea but not at all.

[Genevieve]

I'm also for materials being required to repair. It's more realistic, and achieves the objectives of the suggestion.

'

I also like this suggestion.

[BZR]

Maybe repairing with material cost could decrease the minimum deterioration of all objects (if it is implented that way). Although that could lower the increased consumption from this suggestion and the increased consumption was a main point of it.

If repairs would cost materials, it would increase consumption, not decrease it. That's actually the idea I would favour most.

I support it, that's what we need.

We can even decrease the rot rates, but resources should be demanded.

edit - typo correction

[Yaddy1]

I'm also for materials being required to repair. It's more realistic, and achieves the objectives of the suggestion.

'

I also like this suggestion.

Me too.

[Piscator]

Okay, people. I'd like to suggest a variation of the original suggestion, we could start implementing right away, without ProgD's involvement.

The idea would basically use the idea of a permanent and a non-permanent rot value, but assume that non-permanent damages are fixed by the characters immediately and automatically. This would thus only leave the permanent rot value.

This approach would remove the need for repair projects entirely, but would also mean that an item would become unusable after a certain time of use and had to be replaced by a new one. In other words, we would remove the daily rot and the repairability and set the use-based decay to a value that would allow you to use the tool continously for a couple of years.

This is essentially a variation of the idea of using raw materials to repair tools. Instead of wearing a hammer half down and then using half the initial resource requirements to restore it, you would use the hammer up and then invest 100% of the initial requirements to build a new one. The basic idea is the same, but this way we could avoid some technical problems and start right away, as initially mentioned. The option to repair items with resources could be still implemented later on, the system should be a 100% compatible.

To wrap it up, this idea would have the following advantages:

- No tedious repair projects anymore

- Old tools would have to be constantly (but slowly) replaced with new ones, creating a need for blacksmiths and resource trade

- Entirely use-based item life. Keepsakes could be kept indefinitely if not used. Store owners wouldn't have to worry about their merchandise rotting away

- Can be implemented by RD alone

[Doug R.]

I like it. However, since we're proposing this, I'm assuming that we're dismissing as untenable or flawed the original concept of item rot as a way to make hoarding more difficult and to force wealthy characters to hire poor characters to fix their items?

[Piscator]

As time is cheap as dirt and everywhere available, the original approach to item rot seems indeed to have proven unsuccesful.

[Doug R.]

Agreed.

[Arenti]

I agree with that tools shouldn't be able to be repaired forever.

[SekoETC]

I didn't read everything but here's an idea, things should only deteriorate based on usage and when left on the ground outdoors, not when kept in storage rooms. Damage taken from lying on the ground would be basically unrepairable. If a metal item rusts then you can scrape the rust off the top if it's only on the surface, but the item will lose a part of it's mass (weight) and if that's repeated enough of times, it will rust thoroughly and there will be nothing left. Likewise if you leave it there long enough, it will rust all the way through and be unrepairable. Also wooden parts will rot or get feeble otherwise. Unrepairable damage. If a metal item is well-maintained then it should last hundreds of years but if it's left on the ground then it would rot in a couple of years. Also once putting items in containers is enabled, it could be made so that the floor in buildings is also considered a moist environment and people would need to put their tools on shelves and tool racks to prevent rotting and rusting. Or build more hi-tech buildings with sub-surface drainage and proper foundation. Then old fashioned stone buildings could be taken akin to old-fashioned castles that are always damp and cold.

[Surly]

My main objection is that this is an "easy" fix, rather than the "best" fix.

Flip side of that is that waiting for the "best" fix has been at least 4 years to date, and this change is certainly preferable to another 4 years of nothing...

[Doug R.]

What's the best fix?

[nateflory]

I didn't read everything but here's an idea, things should only deteriorate based on usage and when left on the ground outdoors, not when kept in storage rooms.

This was essentially what I was thinking as I read the OP....
Bone tools are cheap, and yet have been found in archeological digs many years after the original owners died. I do understand the point though, is to allow something more/less like a negative-sum economy using deterioration...

My first thought was that items left outside on the ground should not necessarily have two rot values, but their maximum "durability" should be slightly reduced if left to rot to Very old/Crumbling. I forget how the database stores durability values (each item stores it's rot rate, or item names reference a separate table of "rot rates"??) but if it is item-based rather than referencing a template, then you could reduce the individual item's max durability slowly. Thus, they would "rot" faster and faster and eventually vanish.

Likewise, using things would reduce the durability. But jsut sitting alone in a storage room should imply proper storage/maintanence. This way, instead of a daily rot tick, the check for wear-and-tear could see if the item is on hte floor of "outside", or being heavily used.
(examples of easy-to-check use would be fighting/hunting, otherwise, project ticks might reference the items in-inventory, since they already do confirm the objects are in-hand.

[returner]

My main objection is that this is an "easy" fix, rather than the "best" fix.

Flip side of that is that waiting for the "best" fix has been at least 4 years to date, and this change is certainly preferable to another 4 years of nothing...

The best fix is to recreate real-life.

I have never supported a suggestion more.

The idea of usage-based rot is just genius. It sucks that my charries will eventually lose tools, but overall is a great idea.

We should receive some of the item back when it is fully destroyed, perhaps 20% - 40% of the resources required to make it.