Skills Bars

[formerly known as hf]

I get what you're at Surly - but I've said time and time again, that I don't like numbers in Cantr - I don't think there should even be bars, or an exact amount of damage when you attack... Just a description of how much/liltle was caused. I'd much rather any underlying mathematical programming were somehow transferred into non-numerical descriptions... But that's just preference...

And whilst I'm well aware that Cantr is far from a mimic of reality - and that total realism would be dull (and pointless) - I think that numbers or values (except maybe weights) - should be dispensed with...

Numbers and maths gives me the creeps anyways...

[Surly]

I wouldn't mind some kind of vague description... even something that only comes up after, say, 5 days work. "You possess some skill at this" or something similar. But it is ridiculous to implement something and keep it secret in such a way that only inhibits good gameplay.

Secrets cause more harm than good... A saying probably anathema to the Cantr way...

"Find out in game..."

[wichita]

I desagree completely with you West. In RL, people do what they can with the skills that they have, but it takes time to discover their skills. There are even people who work at a job that they don't really have to skills to do.

Remember that most of us don't want to spend 21 years finding out what our characters are good at. That is part of what the previous 20 years of a Cantrian's life encompasses.

I see your point Birdsall, and agree with Surly. Something should be done to deal with the 20 year spawning blackout. I managed to pretty well line up my abilities by the time I hit 20.
Science / math = pretty good
Art / Literature = average
Sports / Manual Labor =

West summed up the reasons for implementing it very nicely. I don't know that it would help cut down on the suicide rate, though it would likely speed up the decision process for all the Kevorkians out there. "Damn, I spawned another terminally good farmer."

And Hallucinatingfarmer is right about the math. I don't like the bars we have now either, because I hear too many lazy roleplayers out there translating it into numbers in conversation. (Please round of weights when possible unless your character is carrying a scale. You don't go to the grocery and pick up a 2347 gram bag of potatoes do you? Say 5 lbs. and get on with it.)

Although the bar would be easier to program, the word descriptors would be much preferrable.

[west]

In real life we have to figure out what we're good at, true, but we've only got one real life and we spend most of our time with it. We don't have 200 minutes a day to split between 15 rapidly-aging simulacra in real life.

Cantr is a society simulator, not a second life, and those 20 years have got to have some purpose, right? (side note: those age indicators didn't appear until the late 200s/early 300s, and the term 'years' for them didn't appear until even later)

In any case, as I said, adding visible stats wouldn't be anything like Final Fantasy or anything of that type. Those are leveling RPGs, and you can change your proficiency with things. Cantr stats wouldn't be like that at all: they'd just be an indication of what your char is good at or not. As far as I know you can't improve your stats in any way, so I don't see the connection with Final Fantasy at all.


EDIT

I don't like the bars we have now either, because I hear too many lazy roleplayers out there translating it into numbers in conversation. (Please round of weights when possible unless your character is carrying a scale. You don't go to the grocery and pick up a 2347 gram bag of potatoes do you? Say 5 lbs. and get on with it.)

Human beings don't have the ability to eyeball precise measurements like that. Cantr people evidently do. Furthermore, don't assume anything in cantr is like its real life counterpart: in another thread they're discussing that apparently everything in cantr comes in convenient little one-gram units, like atoms. I imagine sand grains 1" across in all the deserts

There's really no such thing as "one potato" in cantr; you can have one GRAM of potatoes, and for all we know all potatoes are one-gram little balls.

[wichita]

Fair enough, West. I can learn to deal with that. Suddenly I feel less compelled to boil the potatoes as you have just made them sound like the nutritional capsules from 2001.

Or are the 1 gram potato balls really Soylent Green?

[Solfius]

I'm against a skills page, listing what all the skills are and how good you are, but agree in principle with giving more information on skill. I think that the best approach is to include information as to how good you are in the project complete text.

It would then be up to the character to make a note of their skills in areas, and maybe draw conclusions as to what activities are similar in terms of skills

[The Industriallist]

I think you're supposed to be able to improve...that's what people who ought to know have said, anyway. Though I haven't ever seen evidence of it happening.

Considering that, unlike IRL, the 'health descriptor' will just be a crude, de-clarified substitute for the bar (which is in turn a de-clarified substitute for the number, but I can understand not wanting people to talk about 'percent damage' much), I don't think it could possibly be a good idea.

I just love the beautiful world you're building...Where it becomes suppressed, but widely known among the experienced players, that a "vicious" wounding drops someone 3 tiers of health, whereas a "severe" wounding means two...and of course the illicit distribution of what order the silly little text snippits need to be put in and how far each is from death...

And of course players quit left and right because they had no way to know that they were in poor enough health for that boar to kill them...the ones who aren't busy bypassing the information drain as much as possible, that is.

I'm not sure which of those two factions I'd agree more with.

[west]

See, this is what I've been speaking against: the idea that some characters have an inherent advantage over others because of who plays them. Not RPwise or anything; some players are just more intelligent or better at RPing than others, no two ways about it. But the idea of "find out in-game", especially about real fundamentals, while good in theory, in principle means that new players are at a severe disadvantage, not only in-game where they start with nothing (same as everyone else) but also out-of-game as there are many things about the game that they just don't know and can have a profound affect on their characters' survivals.

Nearly all games come with a manual of sorts detailing the BASICS of how to live and survive in the world, what items do what, etc.

[formerly known as hf]

I did something like that - an interface guide - described all the buttons - thought not really 'how the game works' - as in eating, projects etc... Cantr does have a steep learning curve... Especially if you're used the usual RP games... But it's also fast - it's rare that it remains confusing for very long - the forums, or even characters, often help smoothen things out...