Comfort meter for characters

[SekoETC]

I remember someone said that they'd quit if such a thing was ever implemented but I think it would give a reason for eating more advanced foods, using alcohol and drugs and implementing things like massage and haircuts.

Here's how I figure it would work: The bar would start full or half full and would keep decreasing by default, so people would need to consume certain resources or get others to do certain actions for them in order to increase it.

Things that would increase the bar:

Food - the more advanced the food, the larger the increase would be. It should be possible to eat healing foods for comfort. Currently it's not possible for a food to be both healing and energy food so it wouldn't be possible for them to be comfort foods at the same time, but if the code was changed so that it would either increase several meters at once or allow the user to choose which stat they want to increase. I think eating things this way should also make characters gain weight.

Drunkenness - but I think it would be cool if there was a counter so that when characters have consumed large amounts of alcohol, they would develop resistance to it and require more and more in order to reach the necessary level of drunkenness. The peak could be maybe around 20% or so, after which it would start causing less and less comfort, eventually turning negative around 60-70%. It would be good if drinking large amounts or going on a binge would lead into hangover that would temporarily give you more discomfort that could only be "cured" by drinking more - or waiting it out.

Smoking - there's already hemp but there could be tobacco as well. I think it should have a random chance of eventually causing lung cancer that would lead into death.

Physical touch - there could be several varieties, like a brief touch, hug, kiss, shoulder rub and back or full body massage. They could either appear directly in events or as propositions (the latter would require more coding) and could be returned, accepted or refused. Being returned would give the giver and receiver an equal increase, accepting would give the receiver more than the giver (but still less than in the returned option) and refusing would give a negative increase to both parties. The interactions should be logged and if a character refuses touching coming from a single giver several times in a row, the discomfort for the receiver should increase and for the giver, decrease (since they are probably knowing that the target doesn't like being touched and are doing it just to offend them). Also if something happens too frequently, the comfort gains should be decreased since it either gets taken for granted or turns into an annoyance.

Grooming - brushing, combing, haircuts, shaving - they cause comfort because 1) it's a form of touching and 2) it makes you look neater adn 3) when excess hair is removed, it makes you feel lighter. Brushing and combing could be possible several times a day, shaving once a day and hair cutting less frequently but still several times a year. As with physical touching, it should be possible to accept or refuse, but it would be good if it was also possible to accept grudgingly or refuse violently, which might lead into badly cut hair. I think it would be good if it was possible to do it forcefully so that it could be used to humiliate prisoners or as an initiation ritual for new troops. Keeping track of hair status would probably require a new table but I doubt it would take much space on the server.

(Possibly) wearing clothes - this might be more difficult to calculate. It would be good if different regions had different temperatures and dressing according to the weather would give you comfort. Seasonal changes would be nice too because in some places people already rp it being occasionally cold and occasionally hot, but it would be better if the game dictated it.

Cooling and heating - if location temperatures were implemented, people could get discomfort for being too hot or cold. Thus you could get comfort from staying in a building with a heated oven (or possibly a kiln or a smelting furnace, although those tend to cause more heat than what's comfortable), or staying near a fire outdoors, carrying blankets, sleeping in a bed, using a fan or having someone else fan you when it's hot.

Resistance

This already came up with the alcohol usage but with pretty much all of the things, if you get them regularly, they become taken for granted and cause less comfort, so you need to consume more in order to be satisfied. This should lead into side effects like weight gain, alcoholism, drug addiction, general hedonism and so on. Poor people would lead dull lives while rich people would spend more and more time on gaining comfort. Although poor people could still hug each other and such, since touching doesn't cost anything. It would give people a reason to stay in communities or travel with company rather than living and exploring alone.

[Piscator]

Well, I don't think it would be a good idea for several reasons.

a) Cantr is a first-person roleplaying game for most people, not a third person people simulator. The proposed changes would make a char much more appear like a carrot, that has to be watered and fertilized, than something you can identify with.

b) Making social interaction a part of the game mechanics would lead to entirely unnatural behaviour. Instead of hugging a person because it is right in that particular situation, people would hug, kiss and massage just to get their hug meter to 100%.

c) The whole suggestion seems awfully complicated and intricate. Besides being a huge effort to program, all those rules would reduce the accessibility for new or even old players.

d) These rules would be terribly restrictive.

[theguy]

Well, I don't think it would be a good idea for several reasons.

a) Cantr is a first-person roleplaying game for most people, not a third person people simulator. The proposed changes would make a char much more appear like a carrot, that has to be watered and fertilized, than something you can identify with.

b) Making social interaction a part of the game mechanics would lead to entirely unnatural behaviour. Instead of hugging a person because it is right in that particular situation, people would hug, kiss and massage just to get their hug meter to 100%.

c) The whole suggestion seems awfully complicated and intricate. Besides being a huge effort to program, all those rules would reduce the accessibility for new or even old players.

d) These rules would be terribly restrictive.

Agreed

[returner]

Interesting. I liked the idea at first but Piscator pursuaded me otherwise.. It just feels too structured.

However, in coming years, this is an important revolution that -must- occur in Cantr, I believe.. the game needs much more depth than it has if it wants to survive in 2012 and onwards.

[SekoETC]

I think I'll probably save it for if I ever manage to make a game of my own, unless someone could figure out a way to simplify it. I remember when I was playing Human Age, there was a morale bar they implemented a gifts system so that people could boost each other's morale instead of buying things for themselves. And I certainly felt better about giving gifts to others and receiving them than buying morale increasing items for myself even though the gifts had a smaller morale points to trout heads ratio. It's the social aspect that counts, that people can show they care for one another.

Although in Cantr you can just do that through emotes, but if there was a built-in system that made characters require comfort, that would encourage people to live in communities and either make friends with others or purchase comfort services (or enslave people and force them to provide them).

I also remember the time back when tiredness was implemented and it was so great that people had to go inside for like every three days to rest. It was a bit problematic since it slowed things down but at the same time it was breaking up the monotony of working on the same project for days without a break. It's all about finding balance, the tiredness rates were nerfed so bad that people would only need to rest if they'd been fighting. Likewise if there was a comfort system, it would have to be balanced so that people won't get too frustrated.

But I think a system where people get used to things and start taking them for granted would ensure that people had to go searching for new ways to make their lives interesting. I guess also if someone was put in jail and forced to drop everything, at first they would feel very uncomfortable and depressed about the situation, but after a while they'd be grateful for things like a hide blanket or getting food after being kept in hunger for a few days.

[returner]

This sort of suggestion would go well with reveri.es, I guess Cantr is too old and too settled for any major changes to come it's way now.

The future of Cantr is sort of depressing. So much more can be done.. reveri.es is a one-man job (sorta) and already it sounds like it has a potential far greater than Cantr's.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to staff members by saying that, though. Everyone has done a wonderful job but like I said in an earlier post in this thread, Cantr probably won't survive much longer without huge changes.. like a second, marginalised world.

[theguy]

This sort of suggestion would go well with reveri.es, I guess Cantr is too old and too settled for any major changes to come it's way now.

The future of Cantr is sort of depressing. So much more can be done.. reveri.es is a one-man job (sorta) and already it sounds like it has a potential far greater than Cantr's.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to staff members by saying that, though. Everyone has done a wonderful job but like I said in an earlier post in this thread, Cantr probably won't survive much longer without huge changes.. like a second, marginalised world.

What evidence do you base this idea on? That cantr will die without massive change?

[Piscator]

Seko's ideas are all very interesting, but Cantr is the wrong type of game for them in my opinion. They would fit much better to a true simulation like The Sims. As I tried to say, Cantr is predominantly a RPG which requires to express your own emotions and thoughts through your characters. A comfort meter would mean that characters would become separate beings. Instead of being able to identify with your characters, you would look at them from a god-like perspective, giving the experience a more Tamagochian feel.