Cantr II Discussion Forum

Answer this poll. This is an additional poll to generally see what everyone's viewpoint is.

My definition of communism is the ideals genreally put gforth by Marx and Lennin. The basic theory behind the general state of communism. Or if you really want to be picky, the extreme left of the spectrum.

and for the sake of others, this includes radical hardlined socialism.

If depends on what you mean by communism.

Marx defined commuism.
Lenin, Stalin, and Mao defined temporary mechanisms to reach the goal state.

It depends on your definition of communism and its a blanketed word with a large stigma attached the only one i can vote for in good conscience is not entirely sure,it`s better to just have a good idea than a belief system anywyas,

If you mean communism like Karl Marx difined it, than it's ok. But Stalin, Lenin and Mao made their 'own' communism, what was completly wrong (they took out the escential parts of the 'real' communism).

Jochem

The socialism that Marx created was called Marxism and not Communism. Communism came from Marxism based loosely on those ideals.

We should probably make this pole based on socialism instead of just Communism. That way it encompasses all of them including Communism, facism and the other socialistic ideals that have grown from both sides of the political specturm.

Also add in an answer for neither good or evil. The systems and ideals themselves are not evil, it was the people who used and abused them that were evil.

And would you then include typical Western European social-democracy? Like the British Labour Party, or the welfare systems in many northern European countries?

I'm afraid that what is considered mainstream social-democratic policies in Europe, is considered borderline communism in the US ...

This dowsn't include the Europian social democrats. I'm talking about the extreme lefts. Further than socialism or maybe counting radical socialism. Comprende?

What about extreme Conservative Socialism? To a social, radical liberal, communism might not sound like such a bad idea to them. It would not be considered evil to them.

Exreme conservative socialism.........hmmmm.......I forgot about that one. OK then. Hardlined socialism yes. allmost the same as that one. I guess you can count that in. But hardlined socialism and middle socialsim is the limit. No more right in the spectrum after that. Man everyone is picky.

It doesn't mater which flavor of socialism they are all based on faulty economic thinking and a perverted view of humankind.

Exactly!! That's the overall view I have been saying. Communism and socialism are based on a terribly naive, potentialy corrupt, and foolish economic and political system which can never happen for many reasons!

It doesn't work because most people are so corrupt and greedy they defeat what they're trying to achieve. People are to obsessed with measuring how many items they have and much money they earn etc etc. If people didn't act like and I mean everybody was honest,hardworking,loyal and of course a socialist of the highest order then a communist government would work. China has taken a capitalist approach to communism which is one of many reasons why it hasn't collapsed...yet.

Darth Tiberius wrote:Exactly!! That's the overall view I have been saying. Communism and socialism are based on a terribly naive, potentialy corrupt, and foolish economic and political system which can never happen for many reasons!

That doesn't make it evil though, neither does it make Marx evil, and certainly not more evil than Hitler.

It is justifiable to call Marx unrealistic, but how can you call him evil when his political theory is there as a means of making the world a better place, be it naive or not?

Camino wrote:It doesn't work because most people are so corrupt and greedy they defeat what they're trying to achieve. People are to obsessed with measuring how many items they have and much money they earn etc etc. If people didn't act like and I mean everybody was honest,hardworking,loyal and of course a socialist of the highest order then a communist government would work. China has taken a capitalist approach to communism which is one of many reasons why it hasn't collapsed...yet.

A socialist government can never work because socialism is anti-human.
Socialism works perfectly for ants and bees, but that we ain't!

Are you saying that the ideal state of being is to not want to improve your situation in life? All those physical things that humans want and desire contribute to their happiness and well being, not that there aren't some misguided people desiring destructive things.

"Rational greed and selfishness" are human virtues, not faults. They are the driving force behind human progress.

If you want to educate yourself about socialism the following link will take you to a 600 page book on the subject.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Mises/msSContents.html

so basically, in answer to the topic name, which is a question:

Communism is good.

but there is a catch that we agree upon, and that is it unrealistic and won't happen.