Iraq feels the liberal way of the west...

[Pirog]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld ... -headlines

"U.S.-Led Coalition Shuts Down Iraq Paper."

It is interesting to see that only the people working for the Americans get's to enjoy rights like free speech etc.

Do you think it is right to shut down such papers?
The content seems to have been questionable, but so has many articles from western media.

Together with the news today, that troops from US lead coalition (it seems they were Spanish) opened fire into a large group of demonstrators, killing 19 and wounding up to a hundred people, (reports in Swedish media has varied from around 40 to 100 people) I think it starts to get clear that many Iraqis aren't happy about being "liberated".

[The Hunter]

Yeah, with the events from the last day I wonder how happy they are afterall. I wondr how long that "monument" would last if placed.

Just didn't want to post it. Didn't feel like another discussion and being accused of being a terrorist and narrow-minded.

[Pirog]

Oh, come on Hunter...join the dark side and support terrorism with me
It's great!

[trage]

Yes how ironic pirog considering your Sig.

[rklenseth]

The papers that I believe you are talking about that were shut down where blatantly inciting violence against other people. I believe it was a Sunni paper (Sunnis support Saddam) that were calling for the killing of American, and other foriegners as well as Kurds, Shiites, and Arabs. In America that is not even allowed. There use to be circulation in the US that incited violence against abortion doctors and the US government shut that down.

But I do agree. Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Expression should not be shut down. You should be able to say whatever you want and write and publish whatever you want. That I am planning to make my crusade in the future. I am against most kinds of censorships.

[Meh]

FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! says I in a crowded theater.

There is a different between critque and irresponsibility.

[Pirog]

trage>

My signature was Nitefyre's judgement about me.

Lenseth>

But doesn't American news paper supporting the war on Iraq inciting the killing of anti-American iraqis?

I haven't read the paper, so I don't know how much violence they called for...but the American government are not new to shutting down critique against them.

Meh>

Yes, irresponsibility is critizising USA

[rklenseth]

trage>

My signature was Nitefyre's judgement about me.

Lenseth>

But doesn't American news paper supporting the war on Iraq inciting the killing of anti-American iraqis?

I haven't read the paper, so I don't know how much violence they called for...but the American government are not new to shutting down critique against them.

Meh>

Yes, irresponsibility is critizising USA

No, they do not incite violence. In fact, most of the American newspapers didn't publish the pictures of those American civilians that were ambushed, then dragged through th streets, and then hung from bridge because that is the kind of effect that might happen.

And it wasn't critique. Most of the Iraqi and American newspapers have some pretty bad stuff about Bush everyday and they don't get shut down.

And as Meh, said there is a big difference between reporting the story, critisizing, and then yelling FIRE, FIRE, FIRE.

[Pirog]

I don't think the reason for not showing the pictures of the mutilated corpses were of concern about people's feelings towards the Iraqis.

Americans always seen afraid to see casualties amongst yourselves.
Supporting wars where thousands of people are dying doesn't cause much afterthought amongst the people, but when the twin towers blew up and American lives were lost you freaked out and was in total shock for over a year.

I also believe that the American government put pressure on American media not to show to much of the footage, since it might discourage people from supporting the war.
Just look at Somalia, where the invincible American army pulled out after pictures of an American corpse was paraded by the enemy...

[rklenseth]

I don't think the reason for not showing the pictures of the mutilated corpses were of concern about people's feelings towards the Iraqis.

Americans always seen afraid to see casualties amongst yourselves.
Supporting wars where thousands of people are dying doesn't cause much afterthought amongst the people, but when the twin towers blew up and American lives were lost you freaked out and was in total shock for over a year.

I also believe that the American government put pressure on American media not to show to much of the footage, since it might discourage people from supporting the war.
Just look at Somalia, where the invincible American army pulled out after pictures of an American corpse was paraded by the enemy...

hmmm.....I guess you never heard of the American Civil War. The bloodiest war for Americans and the bloodiest war in the Western Hemisphere. Believe me, we aren't afraid to casualties amongst ourselves.

I wasn't in shock at all. I think a lot of Americans knew something would happen eventually.

I don't see a reason why the American government would put pressure on the media to not show it. It wasn't US soldiers but civilians. In fact, it would have most likely go the other way then it did in Somalia and it has seem to anger a lot of Americans. Not towards Iraqis but towards terrorists and their supporters.

Oh yeah, lets see a hundred Rangers, Delta Force had a good odds against a abut 100,000 or more heavily armed men in Somalia. And that was an effort by America to stop the genocide, ethnic cleansing, and famine.

As I said before, America should pull out the world, go into isolation and worry about ourselves. Then you wouldn't have anything to complain about anymore. I think that sounds like a great idea. We'll worry about ourselves and you worry about yourselves and everyone will be happy. Right?

[Pirog]

hmmm.....I guess you never heard of the American Civil War. The bloodiest war for Americans and the bloodiest war in the Western Hemisphere. Believe me, we aren't afraid to casualties amongst ourselves.

But that is a long time ago now.
We Swedes don't even know about war anymore, but we have a very violent history. People forget these things...

I wasn't in shock at all. I think a lot of Americans knew something would happen eventually.

Well, most Americans were in shock.
And even on this board I have seen people talk about like it can't even be compared to other acts of violence...

I don't see a reason why the American government would put pressure on the media to not show it. It wasn't US soldiers but civilians. In fact, it would have most likely go the other way then it did in Somalia and it has seem to anger a lot of Americans. Not towards Iraqis but towards terrorists and their supporters.

Well, the reason is what I stated above, but if you don't share my views about dead americans causing people to lose their enthusiasm about the war in Iraq I understand your perspective.

Oh yeah, lets see a hundred Rangers, Delta Force had a good odds against a abut 100,000 or more heavily armed men in Somalia. And that was an effort by America to stop the genocide, ethnic cleansing, and famine.

I didn't say the Americans made a poor job fighting the Somalians...I'm just saying that a few killed soldiers made the great invincble army of USA turn back and run...
And it was just another one of those conflicts that either Europe or USA started by intervening in the first place.
I don't have the time to explain it in detail, but here is a link if you want to read a critical view on the American intervention.
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/shalomsomalia.html

As I said before, America should pull out the world, go into isolation and worry about ourselves. Then you wouldn't have anything to complain about anymore. I think that sounds like a great idea. We'll worry about ourselves and you worry about yourselves and everyone will be happy. Right?

I think there is a difference in isolating yourself from the rest of the world and to simply stop putting your nose in every conflict and make hasted decisions based on poor facts. (and to be honest, USA needs the rest of the world more than it needs you...)
Most European countries have finally started to understand that the rest of the world doesn't see us as a goal to where they want to reach, so they have stopped trying to force their life style on them.
After a couple of terrorist attacks on American soil you will probably draw that conclusion to...

It is so strange that you Americans are so aware that the rest of the world has started to hate you, but instead of dealing with it you turn it into some kind of joke.
(Just to clearify: They don't hate Americans personally, just the way you deal with the rest of the world.)

[Meh]

Most European countries have finally started to understand that the rest of the world doesn't see us as a goal to where they want to reach, so they have stopped trying to force their life style on them.

This is why the EU is has a list of "languages of power". A convient way to keep a few silly dialects the standard because someone wrote something significant in the eyes of the EU five centries ago while supressing other languages that more people speak today. And I am not talking about English.

And there you go again saying that setting up a democracy over a regieme that killed and toututred for no reason daily while the EU lead the charge to end sancations is a lifestyle change. I know lets force a system that has never ever worked anywhere onto them. Or better yet leave them alone and sell them cat'o'nine tails with italian leather with swedish goverment backed steel tied in.

The only goal is to keep places from being from exporting orgianzied crime and terrorism. Nothing gets done sitting around with a meatball up your butt.

But yeah let the Bosians and the Croations do their ethic cleansing while you sip wine and cheese just a few miles away. After all taking away ethic cleasing would just be forcing a lifestyle choice wouldn't it?

[Bowser]

FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! says I in a crowded theater.

There is a different between critque and irresponsibility.

On a side nte, I was in a VERY crowded movie theater on a movies opening night and the fire alarm went off. No one really moved until someone came in and told us we had to evacuate. A few movie going fans were quite rude to the 16 year old user asking them to leave.

I don't believe the screaming FIRE in a movie theater example anymore as being a dangerous thing, unless you count the people attacking the yeller for disturbing their movie going experience.

[nitefyre]

(Just to clearify: They don't hate Americans personally, just the way you deal with the rest of the world.)

Don't worry I don't hate all Axis of Weasle members, just you. =O

I'm j.k, no hard feelings, I just needed to make a "hasty decision" on this forum matter as a true american in that way. Does that satisfy your disgusting hypocritical stereotyping?

Yes people who lost loved ones may have been in post traumatic stress and other greiving processes years later, but we had a war to fight, and that just shows how we were not in shock. When I find a point worth making with Pirog, probably after he stops sending money to Al Sadr.

[west]

The liberal ways of the |west|?

Hm.