Rise against the Industry, it is time for change!

[Cdls]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-20016961-83.html

Probably gonna get a crapload of people that disagree with me, but 4Chan gets a +1 from me for this:

The actions by 4chan users were launched in retaliation against similar DDoS attacks aimed at The Pirate Bay and other file-sharing sites, according to Panda Security.

An Indian firm called Aiplex Software recently revealed that it had been tapped by the MPAA to go after sites like The Pirate Bay for illegally sharing copyrighted movies. Aiplex Software's managing director Girish Kuman reportedly boasted in an interview last week with the Sydney Morning Herald that his company was specifically hired to launch cyberattacks against sites that fail to respond to copyright infringement notices sent by the MPAA.

Both the MPAA and Aiplex Software confirmed to the BBC News that they had been hit by the attacks, but that both sites were back online by Monday. Besides targeting the two industry groups, the attacks also hit Aiplex's Web site on Saturday, according to security firm Sophos.

The DDoS attacks, which overwhelm a Web site with requests, resulted in 37 service interruptions and 1 hour and 37 minutes of downtime for the MPAA, and 24 separate down-times for the RIAA by Sunday, according to Panda Security. 4chan users also tried to "Google bomb" the phrase "ROBERT PISANO MPAA CEO ARRESTED FOR CHILD MOLESTATION!," added Panda.

I am not advocating piracy against legitimate business, but I hate the actions of the RIAA and MPAA and hope more actions are being planned against them.

[joo]

Yarr.

[Cdls]

http://pandalabs.pandasecurity.com/an-interview-with-anonymous/

WOOT!
Let it continue!

It is seriously time for a wake up call to the entertainment/publishing industry that us consumers are done paying these outrageous prices, that their practice of profiting more than those actually doing the work (the musicians, authors, artists and so on) need to come to an end.

I say we should have an international pirate day!

[Piscator]

If you mean this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Day

we just missed it.

[Doug R.]

These people are nothing but anarchists attempting to dress their destruction in the robes of social change. They're hypocrites. Content generators (artists, writers, musicians, etc.) may or may not be paid enough by the industry, but at least they get paid. Content generators get NOTHING when their product is pirated. It's like raping a prostitute to protest the way their pimp treats them. It makes absolutely no sense.

[Cdls]

Usually I would agree, and I am not supporting their other actions. They are though, at this time, targeting a legitimate issue.

Content generators (artists, writers, musicians, etc.) may or may not be paid enough by the industry, but at least they get paid.

Sure, but the same could be said about international sweatshops and other forms of exploitative behavior, to me, that does not sound like a valid argument.

Content generators get NOTHING when their product is pirated.

There is no direct monetary value received when something is pirated, but to say they get nothing whatsoever is not accurate. Money is not everything, there are other things they do gain (popularity, exposure and so on).
To reiterate my initial statement though:

I am not advocating piracy against legitimate business

There are also forms of (in my personal opinion) legitimate piracy. For example, DRM found in electronic entertainment mediums (music/games) that keep the purchaser from being able to enjoy something they legitimately purchased. There are many "cracks" and so on out there that remove it, or in the case of MP3 files, give the purchaser an alternative form of what they had already purchased so that they can enjoy their product.



EDIT:

Piscator, actually I didn't, my anti virus had "pirate talk" enabled for the day!

[Doug R.]

Usually I would agree, and I am not supporting their other actions. They are though, at this time, targeting a legitimate issue.

The barbarian hordes were also targeting a legitimate issue (Roman over-expansion and decadence), and their solution cost us several hundred years of social and scientific progress.

Content generators (artists, writers, musicians, etc.) may or may not be paid enough by the industry, but at least they get paid.

Sure, but the same could be said about international sweatshops and other forms of exploitative behavior, to me, that does not sound like a valid argument.

And as I recall, that was solved with the institution of labor unions and labor laws, not the burning down of the sweat shops by people that didn't even work in them.

I am not advocating piracy against legitimate business

People judge by the behavior you applaud, regardless of how many disclaimers you put with it. These people, by their own admission, got mad and began attacking websites of institutions they don't like. You support this. Cantr was attacked also, presumably by someone who was mad, or offended in some way. Therefore, you should support that also, or you're hypocritical. But, it doesn't work like that when it's a site that you enjoy, or when you don't agree with their "cause," does it? Didn't think so.

So, just think twice about tooting a horn for society's scumbags. They may be picking on something you don't like now, but they could just as easily be picking on you, or on something you support, next year, using the same justifications.

[Piscator]

Usually I would agree, and I am not supporting their other actions. They are though, at this time, targeting a legitimate issue.

The barbarian hordes were also targeting a legitimate issue (Roman over-expansion and decadence), and their solution cost us several hundred years of social and scientific progress.

Exactly, who knows what the British Empire might have achieved if it hadn't had to spend so many resources on fighting those anarchists in their colonies.

[Cdls]

So, just think twice about tooting a horn for society's scumbags.

I am hardly "tooting a horn for society's scumbags" by supporting their recent actions. It is unfortunate that you cannot see the distinction.

And as I recall, that was solved with the institution of labor unions and labor laws, not the burning down of the sweat shops by people that didn't even work in them.

Your definition of solved seems to be somewhat lacking as there are still plenty of sweatshops in the US and around the world.

People judge by the behavior you applaud, regardless of how many disclaimers you put with it.

People judge a lot of things.

These people, by their own admission, got mad and began attacking websites of institutions they don't like. You support this.

No, nowhere did I state that I support their reasoning.

Cantr was attacked also, presumably by someone who was mad, or offended in some way. Therefore, you should support that also, or you're hypocritical.

That is hardly a fair or even remotely accurate assessment. I do have a few more choice things I would like to say about this, but I feel it best I keep them to myself.

But, it doesn't work like that when it's a site that you enjoy, or when you don't agree with their "cause," does it? Didn't think so.

Since you apparently know me so well, how about you name a few sites that I "enjoy" that exploit all ends for their own gain. And once again, their is a difference between their "cause" and their actions.

They may be picking on something you don't like now, but they could just as easily be picking on you, or on something you support, next year, using the same justifications.

Once again, you fail to see the distinction.

The barbarian hordes were also targeting a legitimate issue (Roman over-expansion and decadence), and their solution cost us several hundred years of social and scientific progress.

The American Revolution was based on targeting a legitimate issue too, and that solution gave us freedom. There are plenty of positive/negative examples that can be pointed out.


EDIT:

Kill the haaaacker, kill the haaaacker, kill the haaaaker...*mumbling to myself in an Elmer Fudd voice*

Based on your own logic, I guess this means you advocate murder?

[Doug R.]

Piscator:
The point you're making under your sarcasm doesn't fit the situation.

1) At least in regards to America, the colonies bent over backwards to address their grievances with the crown. They didn't want to revolt. The avenues for legitimate legal/social changes have not even been remotely been exhausted regarding the recording and movie industry.

2) The stated revolts were initiated by the wronged parties. This is also not the case here, where you have a group of anarchist vigilantes using another group as justification for their actions. If industry conditions are so bad, there's nothing stopping content generators from taking action themselves.

[Cdls]

The avenues for legitimate legal/social changes have not even been remotely been exhausted regarding the recording and movie industry.

That is true, but it is also true that the RIAA and MPAA have so much money that any attempt at change could turn into such a lengthy and costly process that there is no point in pursuing it.

The stated revolts were initiated by the wronged parties. This is also not the case here, where you have a group of anarchist vigilantes using another group as justification for their actions. If industry conditions are so bad, there's nothing stopping content generators from taking action themselves.

As I said, I do not support their reasoning, what I do support is their action in this instance. As for nothing stopping content generators from taking action themselves, what about contracts, lack of funds to manufacture their own stuff, lack of distribution partners, and many other issues. It is easier to say they can do it themselves than to actually have them do it.

[Piscator]

Well, it's all a matter of perspective. In their opinion, pirates are indeed the wronged party as the art industry deprives them of their (percieved) right to freely access and distribute culture and knowledge. In the end it all boils down to whether you agree with the reason someone's breaking the law or not.

In this special case I can see the reason why one would want to repay one act of vigilante justice with another one. (After all that Indian company appeared to be tasked to commit an illegal act against a site they couldn't take down legally.)

[Doug R.]

You do not support their reasoning.
You do not support their manifesto.

...what I do support is their action in this instance.

You support acts of vandalism against organizations who's policies you disagree with. Ok, I understand now.

It seems from your reply above that I've agitated you on some level, and that you're taking this personally. This was not my intention. I simply felt that if someone makes a public declaration in support of criminal activity, that they should be prepared to defend their position. Indeed, you even invited dissent by suggesting that many would disagree with you. I simply gave your position the exposure that I felt it deserved.

While I'm not familiar with the policies and practices of the organizations involved in this attack, copyright law puts food on my table and my kids through school. I can tell, from your statements, that your familiarity with the issues involved doesn't extend much further from the rhetoric from those that oppose the "industry." I am familiar with the other side of the argument and I know musicians that support these policies.

...what about contracts, lack of funds to manufacture their own stuff, lack of distribution partners, and many other issues. It is easier to say they can do it themselves than to actually have them do it.

And here is where you defeat yourself. All these things cost money. While it is a debatable point that the industry keeps more for themselves than they should, you admit that these institutions are necessary. Supporting the actions of a group who aim to destroy them is a paradox.

[Piscator]

That's actually not a paradox at all. You can fight one form of an institution without disputing its general necessity. You can for example attempt to overthrow a dictatorial regime without intending to get rid of governments in general. Likewise, you could fight an evil corporation with the intend of replacing it with a better one, theoretically speaking.

[Cdls]

It seems from your reply above that I've agitated you on some level, and that you're taking this personally.

I am all for debate on this, and have no problem discussing it, but yes, there was one thing that did agitate me a bit and that was:

Cantr was attacked also, presumably by someone who was mad, or offended in some way. Therefore, you should support that also, or you're hypocritical.

While I'm not familiar with the policies and practices of the organizations involved in this attack, copyright law puts food on my table and my kids through school.

My issue isn't with copyright. I fully support the content generators retaining full ownership. My issue in this regard is the implementation to disrupt piracy creates more issue for legitimate buyers than the pirates. This is an entirely different discussion though, but let me say again, I have no problems with copyright law.

I can tell, from your statements, that your familiarity with the issues involved doesn't extend much further from the rhetoric from those that oppose the "industry." I am familiar with the other side of the argument and I know musicians that support these policies.

Can you please explain to me what I have said that would give you this idea? My familiarity with the issue extends well beyond the "rhetoric". My issue is with the MPAA and RIAA and their actions, not the "industry". Considering I am looking to become a software programmer in the future, the issues surrounding piracy, copyright and overall "issues involved" are quite more extensive than you would seemingly wish to believe.

And here is where you defeat yourself. All these things cost money. While it is a debatable point that the industry keeps more for themselves than they should, you admit that these institutions are necessary. Supporting the actions of a group who aim to destroy them is a paradox.

I would like to point to Piscator's example for one, you can remove a destructive element and replace it.