Ethanol

[Racetyme]

Do you think it is a viable fuel source, and why or why not? I have a very definite opinion, but I'm on the run now. I'll hit up my rant later.

[Pie]

yes.

[Piscator]

It's probably not the best fuel, but at least it won't run out.

[Darkle-ish]

I've done some learning about ethanol, and while it is extremely effecient in use(usually), the processes used to make it are sometimes ineffecient and very expensive. Although, Brazil has done very well using ethanol.


(The above may not be completely accurate. But I'm pretty certain it is.)

[Racetyme]

It takes more energy to make the fuel than the fuel produces when burned. It sucks. Furthermore, we use fossil fuels to create it. Why don't we just use the fossil fuels in the first place.

[Darkle-ish]

The hydrogen used to power hydrogen cars is also processed using fossil fuels, so thats not much better. Money just needs to be used on finding better ways to make alternative fuels without using the resources we're trying to use less of to make them. That and more people need to be willing to use something other than oil.

[Talapus]

Your post is very vague. I assume you are asking if ethanol created from fermenting sugars is a viable source of fuel for automobiles...

Your outburst about taking more energy to create then is provided by its consumption is true in specifics, but the way you say it is being deceptive. All fuels take more energy to create then you will be able to harness by burning them, however that energy input can come from many sources. The energy that is harnessed by burning the ethanol is often much greater then the energy of the fossil fuels used in the process. Because of the massive amounts of labor and farmland that is required, ethanol is viable only on small scales and for very specific circumstances (In Brazil, labor is cheap and there is plenty of land for growing sugar cane). Ethanol is not a viable source of automotive fuel for the USA or the world as a whole however.

I expect to see a rebirth of nuclear fission in the USA similar to what has been happening in some parts of Europe. Hydro electric power will still be economical for some places, and wind turbines (both land based and oceanic), and geothermal plants will provide a small but significant percentage of the global power production. I also expect to see the start of widespread production of syngas from coal, which will accompany natural gas as the next step for automotive fuels.

Ethanol does have some properties that make it quite interesting as a fuel for other tasks though. It is easily stored and transported, it is reasonably energy dense, is nominally non-explosive, and not particularly toxic. That means that it is great for very lightweight tasks, for things that are not serviced regularly, and for the projects of amateurs.

[deadboy]

If you are talking about biofuels, as I suspect you are, no, they are not a viable option, purely as they might be cheap but they take up so much land mass that most of the earths space would have to be taken up with growing biofuel to meet the demands of our cities

Much more viable is, yes, nuclear fission, and eventually when they've finally sorted out all the details, fusion, which is essentially unlimited cheap energy

[Piscator]

On the other hand there is a huge overproduction of agrarian products, at least in the EU. I see no reason why this surplusses have to be wasted. Turning them into fuel seems like a good alternative IMO.

[Reindeer^]

Yes it is.
Ethanol is made by plants (I don´t know is it the only way) so it requires fields which should be used to make food to growing population.
But it is better than oil.

The hydrogen used to power hydrogen cars is also processed using fossil fuels, so thats not much better.

And it is more dangerous. What happens when hydrogen car explodes in a tunnel.

[deadboy]

They are in fact developing "safe" hydrogen cars, ones that work by having a tank of water, electrolysing it, then using the hydrogen produced to fuel the car. The idea is that no hydrogen is actually stored so it won't explode. The problem is that it is incredibly energy inefficient as right now the oxygen is just let off, and electrolysis uses a lot of energy is the first place

[Doug R.]

I've heard that the diversion of the US corn crop into ethanol has now caused a corn shortage in Mexico, so they can't make tortilla. I thought it was a joke when I first heard it, but it isn't. So now we havea stupid government policy that is not only forcing us onto an energy-inefficient gas additive so that they can keep american farmers afloat, but now we're starving poor mexicans in the process.

[Piscator]

They are in fact developing "safe" hydrogen cars, ones that work by having a tank of water, electrolysing it, then using the hydrogen produced to fuel the car.

I'm somehow missing the point of such a system. If it doesn't store the hydrogen, the car would need a constant supply of electricity. And it's an absolutely weird idea to electrolyse water first and use the hydrogen as a fuel (especially if you use a fuel cell and an electric motor) if you could use the electricity directly to power the car.

[deadboy]

No, it is in fact more efficient already than just using the electrisity to power the car, so it has an upside there

[Darkle-ish]

And it is more dangerous. What happens when hydrogen car explodes in a tunnel.

Actually, hydrogen cars are quite safe.