Cantr II Discussion Forum

Having had a lengthy discussion about Western and Islamic societies during an English lesson today, I'm curious, what do you all perceive as the perfect society? I'm not going to give my views yet, I'd just like you all to discuss it. Would it be democratic in the Western sense? A Dictatorship or Kingdom? Liberal or Right Wing? Based upon religious teachings or upon economic success, strength, and wealth? Purely based upon an idealogy or a set of morals? I'd like to hear each of your opinions, including on the current society you live in and how you see each of the other types of societies in the world

I don't think that the perfect society would have a form of government similar to the imperfect ones that exist today. A perfect society would hardly need a government at all, because everyone would fulfill the role in life he is best suited to and would be happy doing so. But that's an utopia of course.
The best form of society we can reach IMO would be some kind of relaxed communism. Of course less ideologic and more tailored to the needs of the human species. Reward good work with good money, not with medals or the like, allow people to struggle for a good position in life, but try to avoid that some people earn a thousand times more for similar work, just because they own money or know how to let it work for you.
In short, the state needs a better control of the economy and the people a better control of the state.

People do the jobs they want to do and everyone gets paid the same.

notsure

benelovent dictatorship with a *keyword* good leader.

[quote="Zanthos"]benelovent dictatorship with a *keyword* good leader.[/quote]
I'd go with that, but we're talking utopia again, power corrupts etc. Who succeeds the present benevolent ruler?

What we should have is a system of elected officials, who's job is to maintain only one rule. That rule been "Don't harm anyone". By that I mean, causing pain or psycological harm with malicious intent. Ie, whipping a prisioner of war isn't fine but consentually whipping a masochist for example is perfectly fine. That's based on a very basic religious notion, pre-organised religion. The more modern phrasing would be "Don't be an asshole". Otherwise a very liberal society, restrictions just cause more crime, drugs should be legal but taxed, same with firearms and such.

It should be so that it would cost the same to the employer to hire two people to work part time as it would take to hire one person to work full time.

People should get a pension and proper care when they're old wether or not you worked a lot or not so much. But in my system, all healthy people would have about the same amount of work.

Education

People would be tested various times in their youth to see what they're most qualified for. There would be different classes for the "normal" kids, slow learners and talented ones. Also different people learn in different ways (visual, auditive and kinetic). So many kids who are considered dumb in school are in fact kinetic learners who could benefit a lot from teaching methods that involve doing and testing things instead of just sitting still, listening to the teacher and taking notes. Naturally there would be some propaganda, if the leaders know that a lot of people will be retiring from a certain field then the job in question would be glorified ("I wanna be a geriatric nurse!") so that more kids would be interested in applying for the training. But generally it would be emphasized that it's good and honorable to work for one's country.

Teenagers are often pretty impossible and you can't expect them to make wise decisions so at least teen boys should spend 2 to 4 years on a dicipline camp, mostly doing physical activities. Puberty is like an illness that we all go through, preferably as fast as possible.

I don't agree with disciplining teenager for a natural change. That would be like reinsituting national service. However, a proper sense of discipline from their schooling and possible forcing martial arts (in the way I learnt, Sensei says kick, you just kick.) Discipline comes from within, and puberty isn't something that beeds to be punished. Oh and some of us are able to make wise decisions, but would be punished by your system purely due to our age. The physical activity part makes me think of old public schools, where runs and cold showers were used to try and supress sexual urges. (Which we should frankly allow, best thing is to teach saftey, not ban things out right, people will still do it, so atleast let them do it safely.)

Also I hate my country's leaders and government, especially the propaganda.

An what about teachers fixing the tests? Or preventing people from learning what they need to know? I've personal experience of this and frankly, under that system, I'd be a low level wage slave, instead of the training scientist I am.

A relevant Churchill comment for all the venting going on, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." Of course, he just had the royal carpet pulled from under him.

Anyway, by character, I'm more of a 'enjoy the journey' rather than the end of the developing societal road as suggested in utopia. I'm quite certain that something essential would be lost at the end, whether its human freedom or something core to the momentum of the human spirit.

It's also suggested in the literary dystopias of 20th Century Literature, such as in Zamyatin's We, which Orwell seemed to have borrowed no little part from for '84 after he found the work-in-translation.

All in all though, that's not to suggest we shouldn't strive to better ourselves, collectively.

SekoETC wrote:Teenagers are often pretty impossible and you can't expect them to make wise decisions so at least teen boys should spend 2 to 4 years on a dicipline camp, mostly doing physical activities. Puberty is like an illness that we all go through, preferably as fast as possible.

Are you serious . You must have had a horrible puberty. I think it would be way wrong to conditionize people in that time of their lifes, because that's the moment they start to think independently for the first time.

Antichrist_Online wrote:Also I hate my country's leaders and government, especially the propaganda.

You're from the US, eh?

Yes, I had a horrible puberty. Well, I had a horrible time while my peers were going through their puberty. I went through the same physical changes but due to bullying, I couldn't rebel against my parents, they were the only shelter I had. So I'm doing it now and I'm 22. I think I hit mental puberty when I was 18. Imagine that. Teachers cannot control teens and teens cannot control themselves. Most parents can't deal with their kids. If there was a common enemy like tough trainers then kids would team up against them instead of against each other.

I've been thinking for example that school uniforms would be a good thing, that would eliminate bullying based on clothing. Be that it would also eliminate some individualism but there's room for that on other fields of life. There's peer pressure that makes kids wear things they don't even like to wear, I remember hearing about a guy who wore baggy pants to school but switches to tight jeans the moment he gets home, because he's so fake. And little girls are dressing up like hookers, I've heard girls saying that they must put on make up each day because otherwise they would look "horrible" and be picked on for the rest of their lives (at least in that school) if they skipped make-up for one day. It's sad. I've almost never worn make-up and no one has noticed this.

I see what you mean. Luckily there was never much preasure in respect of clothing and the like at my school, or maybe I just missed it, because I was quite an outsieder myself. Or maybe I'm just repressing it

But I still don't think it's a good idea to be too opressive during the puberty/childhood. It's a good theory that children would unite against tough trainers, but just as well kids could get rid of the additional aggression by bullying their co-pupils even more.

The real problem may be cooping children of many different skills and interests up in classes together. If we allow children to pursuit the path of education they are suited for, there would maybe be much less disparities. And todays broadband education is rubbish anyway, at least the half of the time I spent in school was totally wasted.

well I have one thing to say.

There is no perfect socioty, becaus no matter what, someone is going to be angry/sad about something, and people just cant get along with each other. The only perfet socioty I can think of is one were everyone is perfect (wich is never going to happen, by the way, until judgement day of course)

Perhaps the perfect society is the one with the maximum amount of happiness in the population. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is happy, but that the average happiness is higher. That way there COULD be a perfect society.

but then people would still complain that they are not happy enough. The closetst thing that I can think that would make a perfect world is a world in wich each and every person has compleat controll of everythin (wich, by the way, is imposibal becaus no two people can have power over everything, let alone 6 billion people) And yet people would complain that it isn't a challenge, and then they would make a challeng for them (be it another godlike entity, or they will create a world with intelegent creatures like god did) but then the people that he creates will be angry/sad about something so it won't be perfect.

Nay, perfection is imposibal, until judgement day.