Religions

[KVZ]

I am Atheist/Secular, and I like to stay like this. I also live in country where most public actions (national celebrations etc.) are dominated by Catholic Christians, so there is lack of Secular way of thinking in my country I think (Poland).

[Abe]

I've got one question about kipas. According to wikipedia, the Talmud states "Cover your head in order that the fear of heaven may be upon you". Most kipas I've seen cover only a tiny part of the head. What's the logic behind that, gejyspa? It seems a bit like cheating to me. Or is it just about the interpretation of "cover"?

[Diego]

I've got one question about kipas. According to wikipedia, the Talmud states "Cover your head in order that the fear of heaven may be upon you". Most kipas I've seen cover only a tiny part of the head. What's the logic behind that, gejyspa? It seems a bit like cheating to me. Or is it just about the interpretation of "cover"?

There is a considerable difference of opinion on whether there is a minimal size for a kippah, below which it cannot serve as an appropriate head covering. Among those who expressed the view that the size of a yarmulke was of little significance, were Rabbi Hayyim Yosef David Azulai (=Hiyda, 18th century, Eretz Yisrael and Italy) as well as today’s Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef (20th –21st century, Israel ). Others have demanded that the whole head, or at least most of it, should be covered by the kippah. Among them are Rabbi Shalom Mashash (19th–20th century, Morocco and Israel) and Nissim Cohen (20th –21st century, Israel). And then there are those who hold an in-between opinion on the appropriate size of a yarmulke, whether in principle or as a practical compromise. Among those are Rabbi Shelomoh Kluger (=Maharshak, 18th -19th century, Ukraine) and Rabbi Moshe Feinstein (20th century, Russia and USA). A fourth group are those who complain about the prevailing bad situation of kippot that are too small, something like “being with but seen to be without”. To be mentioned are Rabbi Ovadiah Hadayah (20th century, Israel) and Rabbi Hillel Posek (20th century, Israel). There are, then, various customary sizes for a yarmulke, ranging from those that cover the top of the head almost completely to those that are barely visible.

http://www.egokippot.com/what-is-a-yarmulke.htm

[gejyspa]

Actually, although Diego's quote is quite correct, what's interesting is what it does not cover (irony not intended). Namely, that initially, in Talmudic times, not everyone did cover their head. It was considered a mark of special piety to do so (e.g. It was said of Rabbi Hunah ben Joshua (4th c. C.E.) that he never walked 4 cubits with his head uncovered. The fact that it's considered noteworthy in the Talmud shows that not every Jew did so). It wasn't until the medieval times that it became common practice for every male Jew to do so. So, in any case, it's certainly not Biblical law to do so (at least not during non-prayer times. During prayer, it might be considered such. I'm not sure). And of course, as I'm sure you read in that article, types of head coverings in the 20th-21st century have became very politicized, especially in Israel. (One of my friends in synagogue has a cool kippah that's split down the middle, half black velvet, half knitted, called the Ahavat Yisrael kippah ("love of Israel") to bridge politics)

As a personal aside, I'm happy to say that the section of that wikipedia article on Kippot in Secular Law was started by yours truly, and was the largest contribution to wikipedia I had made up to that point (and actually, I guess, still is for my English language contributions).

[caged_bird_sings]

I'm thoroughly agnostic, but kind of leaning in the atheist direction. But I don't claim to know whether there's a God or not I'm also a religion major. Count on me joining in this discussion later - I'm studying for a test. (Well, I'm supposed to be.)

[formerly known as hf]

Aw. A discussion of religion on the Cantr forums and I'm too late to start doing my upmost to upset people. I've been missing out.

[dryn]

I don't think that there is a point where a discussion on religion can not go badly.

[gejyspa]

Joshuamonkey--

As our resident (uncloseted, at any rate) member of the LDS church, can I ask a question?
My wife attended an LDS funeral today (at a Jewish funeral home, and interred in a Jewish cemetery -- longish story). She said that before they closed the casket, they did something ceremonialish, but she wasn't sure what (maybe put something in?). She was sitting in the back (Jews don't do open casket funerals, so it kind of ooks us out to see that). So, I was wondering if maybe you could shed any light on this?

[Diego]

I'm thoroughly agnostic, but kind of leaning in the atheist direction. But I don't claim to know whether there's a God or not I'm also a religion major. Count on me joining in this discussion later - I'm studying for a test. (Well, I'm supposed to be.)

An atheist need not claim he knows whether there's a God or not.

[Joshuamonkey]

Joshuamonkey--

As our resident (uncloseted, at any rate) member of the LDS church, can I ask a question?
My wife attended an LDS funeral today (at a Jewish funeral home, and interred in a Jewish cemetery -- longish story). She said that before they closed the casket, they did something ceremonialish, but she wasn't sure what (maybe put something in?). She was sitting in the back (Jews don't do open casket funerals, so it kind of ooks us out to see that). So, I was wondering if maybe you could shed any light on this?

I only remember being to one LDS funeral. However, there isn't any special ceremony before closing the casket. Putting something in like a personal object, letter, etc. is fairly common, though not LDS specific, so that may have been what it was? If you mean that the people who closed/lifted the casket did something, then it most definitely wouldn't be something religion related.
By the way, a story where both Jews and Mormons are involved, I would be very interested to hear. But your choice.

PS gejyspa, I deleted you post, since it seemed like you wanted to. As for everyone being able to delete their own posts, I think that may be a good idea, especially since they can already blank out their posts if they so choose.

[gejyspa]

Joshuamonkey--

As our resident (uncloseted, at any rate) member of the LDS church, can I ask a question?
My wife attended an LDS funeral today (at a Jewish funeral home, and interred in a Jewish cemetery -- longish story). She said that before they closed the casket, they did something ceremonialish, but she wasn't sure what (maybe put something in?). She was sitting in the back (Jews don't do open casket funerals, so it kind of ooks us out to see that). So, I was wondering if maybe you could shed any light on this?

I only remember being to one LDS funeral. However, there isn't any special ceremony before closing the casket. Putting something in like a personal object, letter, etc. is fairly common, though not LDS specific, so that may have been what it was? If you mean that the people who closed/lifted the casket did something, then it most definitely wouldn't be something religion related.
By the way, a story where both Jews and Mormons are involved, I would be very interested to hear. But your choice.

Okay, well it really isn't very longish -- I lied. The deceased was the grandfather of one of my wife's coworkers (she works at a Jewish agency). The family is Jewish, but the grandfather had become a member of the LDS (I guess it they still had a family plot at a Jewish cemetery and/or perhaps his wife is buried there, but how/why he would still be allowed to be buried there, or why a Jewish funeral home would host a non-Jewish service, I can't say)

PS gejyspa, I deleted you post, since it seemed like you wanted to. As for everyone being able to delete their own posts, I think that may be a good idea, especially since they can already blank out their posts if they so choose.

Thank you, yes.

[gejyspa]

Gallup poll reveals Religious people have higher "wellbeing" than non-religious: http://www.gallup.com/poll/145493/Relig ... ths.aspx#1
(The numbers aren't too, too striking. In fact it seems what the religion is has more significance than the degree of relgiosity. I for one, am very surprised that Jews score higher in both "Physical Wellbeing" and "Healthy Behaviors" subindexes than LDS. I would have thought it completely the other way 'round)

[Mr. Black]

OOh, religion. Expect me here tomorrow so I can argue.

[Joshuamonkey]

Yay, now that I'm in a psychology class, I know what "statistically significant" means.

I for one, am very surprised that Jews score higher in both "Physical Wellbeing" and "Healthy Behaviors" subindexes than LDS. I would have thought it completely the other way 'round)

*reads report* Ah, well, I guess I can settle for by far most religious. The LDS church organization tries hard to get inactive members to be active again.
From what I've heard, Jews have strict eating habits and such, so I think that makes sense. I was going to add that the location of the population could effect it (perhaps Israel has high wellbeing ), however, the report says that they controlled for this as well as other factors.

[gejyspa]

Yay, now that I'm in a psychology class, I know what "statistically significant" means.

I for one, am very surprised that Jews score higher in both "Physical Wellbeing" and "Healthy Behaviors" subindexes than LDS. I would have thought it completely the other way 'round)

*reads report* Ah, well, I guess I can settle for by far most religious. The LDS church organization tries hard to get inactive members to be active again.
From what I've heard, Jews have strict eating habits and such, so I think that makes sense. I was going to add that the location of the population could effect it (perhaps Israel has high wellbeing ), however, the report says that they controlled for this as well as other factors.

It was a poll of Americans, though, so the last bit wouldn't come into play. But as for the "strict eating habits" (of the religious, at any rate), doesn't necessarily mean "healthy eating habits" -- Pastrami is quintessentially Jewish, most potato chips are kosher, most soda is kosher, etc. etc. True, we can't have a bacon double cheeseburger with (both) real meat and cheese nor with bacon, but that doesn't mean we can't (or don't) eat analogues with just as much saturated fat, calories, etc. About the best you can say is that we have a positive commandment to be healthy (from Deut 4:9) , which religious Jews should take seriously (although I still know some who smoke, for example).

LDS, on the other hand, abstaining from caffeine, alcohol, etc. I would think should make them very healthy (not to mention those on missions getting a lot of good exercise walking/biking...)