Boycotting Denmark

[Schme]

Exactly. The Danes should close it down if they've any sense, and if they've any decency.


I feel the President of Denmark should close down the paper. But the EU couldn't really do that. The EU isn't even in accord about anything. That's not what it's for, anyhow.

[rklenseth]

We love you Dee! *hugs* and I think many of us here at least understand and promote the concept that Islam is a generally peace-loving religion that can't be represented by such people. At least I know I do!

I am sorry that such disrespectful things happen (to anyone and/or their belief system!). Things like that are why I hate the media because they make a mountain out of a mole hill, so to speak, which just makes it all worse. I'm all for free speech etc. I just hate when one aspect is focused on, instead of all the sides of the di. Naive, I know. *shrugs* Gotta get the sensational to keep the numbers up. Sad, really. Just as sad as the people that give their affiliations bad images.

You hate me!

[Mafia Salad]

Schme, I think you have a good grasp on what's going on.

Billions of people don't have the same basic understanding about freedom of speech, and individual rights and responsibilities that are the norm in western culture.

It's so easy for us westerners to look at all the other people of the world and their beliefs say "It's their understanding of the world, I'll respect that, but I choose something different." And then we go into shock about something like this because we blindly expect them to do the same for us without even knowing why we believe that ourselves.

We can point fingers at the newspaper all we want, after all, they were the ones who printed the comic. But the people burning embassies don't view the world in such specific case-by-case terms. There is a much deeper more important issue here that we in the west like to ignore or simply forget about because the tip of the iceberg has gone under the water again.

You can say, "it's the papers fault", you can say "we have freedom of speech", you can say "they're going to far", but realize that is not what the people demonstrating in the streets are saying. That is not what they are thinking. We can keep dismissing them as bigots and fanatics if we like, but that could just kill us in the end.

I still say I support the boycott, hopefully it will open a few eyes, and it's not a blatant destructive way of getting a point across that can be dismissed as fanaticism. Hopefully some people will realize that the Arab world is different than ours in more ways than food, language and a holy book.

[rklenseth]

Exactly. The Danes should close it down if they've any sense, and if they've any decency.


I feel the President of Denmark should close down the paper. But the EU couldn't really do that. The EU isn't even in accord about anything. That's not what it's for, anyhow.

This would be wrong.

You're willing to throw freedom of expression and the press straight out the window because you disagree with their opinion and punish a whole people for that.

I'm sorry but we don't live Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia or present day China or even places like Saudi Arabia or Iran. We live in a free world where we're allowed to be bigoted if we want. Doesn't make it morally right but it is our right.

Schme, you believe that everyone should be made to do what you believe is morally right. How does that make us different than China? Or Hitler? Or Stalin? Or even these Muslim fanatics, which the whole point of the cartoon?

You can't force virtue on people. That is the one thing that has always failed the greatest tyrants of history and still today they fail to grasp. People want to be free and believe what they want. It might not make a better life for them as it would if everyone was forced to believe the same thing. But should we all become slaves and lay down our beliefs, our freedoms?

I won't nor ever. Bigotry is wrong but so is slavery in my book.

[deadboy]

well said..

[SekoETC]

There's my comment.

[Nick]

Thank you, Helzone, because an average muslim wouldn't do that.

And your average Dane has never drawn pictures of Mohammed and published them.

Taking an action against their entire country is in the same school of thought as somebody thinking you are a terrorist, because of your religion and the fact that there are terrorists who practice the same religion

[Dee]

Exactly. The Danes should close it down if they've any sense, and if they've any decency.


I feel the President of Denmark should close down the paper. But the EU couldn't really do that. The EU isn't even in accord about anything. That's not what it's for, anyhow.

This would be wrong.

You're willing to throw freedom of expression and the press straight out the window because you disagree with their opinion and punish a whole people for that.

I'm sorry but we don't live Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia or present day China or even places like Saudi Arabia or Iran. We live in a free world where we're allowed to be bigoted if we want. Doesn't make it morally right but it is our right.

Schme, you believe that everyone should be made to do what you believe is morally right. How does that make us different than China? Or Hitler? Or Stalin? Or even these Muslim fanatics, which the whole point of the cartoon?

So, are you saying that anyone can insult you publicly, and still be cool about it?

Anyone can make fun of what you believe in, and still call it freedom of speech and expression?

If that is how you think, then you have no morals, you have nothing to defend, no cause to live for, nothing to believe in and be jealous about when some morons make fun of it and underestimate it, and show to the whole world what is false about it.

[Dee]

Thank you, Helzone, because an average muslim wouldn't do that.

And your average Dane has never drawn pictures of Mohammed and published them.

Taking an action against their entire country is in the same school of thought as somebody thinking you are a terrorist, because of your religion and the fact that there are terrorists who practice the same religion

No, Nick, it's not the same. We're not killing people, we're not doing anything, we're just practicing our rights, which we are free to do, just as they are free to practice their freedom of speech.

Edit: It is called retorsion (did I get this right?)

[Nick]

Thank you, Helzone, because an average muslim wouldn't do that.

And your average Dane has never drawn pictures of Mohammed and published them.

Taking an action against their entire country is in the same school of thought as somebody thinking you are a terrorist, because of your religion and the fact that there are terrorists who practice the same religion

No, Nick, it's not the same. We're not killing people, we're not doing anything, we're just practicing our rights, which we are free to do, just as they are free to practice their freedom of speech.

Edit: It is called retorsion (did I get this right?)

So should we, as Westerners, boycot the Middle East (once the oil runs out), because some Muslims have committed terrorist acts? How come YOU guys don't do something about th at?

Truth is, boycotting Denmark will have an effect. But it won't produce your desired result. Not buying from Danish companies is going to have no bearing whatsoever on banning a newspaper owned by a completely different company.

So, you are practicing your right to free speech in order to... criticize free speech?

Count your blessings. Would you rather that we didn't have free speech, so they wouldn't be allowed to publish things like that and conversely, you wouldn't be allowed to protest.

[SCUBA]

Mafia Salad and Schme

I almost thought like you after 9/11. Like, "hope the west now understands something about the arabs situation in the world". But now I understand the reaction of US after 9/11 much better when my own part of the world are being hit by islamists. I don't say muslims or arabs or turks or indonesians or any other religion or people is the bad guys. I say Islamists are the new big danger for the world today. Islamistic movements today is as dangerous to the world that Nazistic, Stalinistic, Maoistic ever was. What frightens me most is that the Islamistic movement is growing so fast.

This reaction about the publishing of these cartoons I think, is not most a reaction of muslims beeing offended. I think this mostly is islamists using normal desent muslims to acheve their goals. They preach that Allah is great and this can't be tolerated. Almost like Hitler preached that the jews were to blame for all bad in Germany. The islamists even tock that part up and spreads many lies about Israel and jews.

Note that i dont say that muslims does this. They don't just the islamists. But today islamism is growing very fast, and ofcourse mostly, alomst only, among muslims.

I'm sure that it will be the same with islamism as with the other -isms i mentiond before. If we don't fight this now, it will destroy anormous number of lives and that mostly among the muslims. I have a great love for especally the palestinian people and have love to be in Palestine (and Israel) as often I can. And I really hope that they don't have to suffer more under the oak of islamists any more. But it looks dark today.

Maybe my first post in this thred was not very clear, and probably this also. But my english is very limited.

/SCUBA

[Nick]

You're definately misusing the word islamist.

[SCUBA]

You're definately misusing the word islamist.

How should I use it?

/SCUBA

[Stan]

Acutally it isn't a word at all, I don't think. I think somone who practices Islam is called a Muslim (in English).

I think you mean Islamic militant.

[Nick]

islamist

n : a believer or follower of Islam [syn: Muslim, Moslem, Mohammedan, Muhammedan, Muhammadan, Islamist]