Trouble In The Netherlands

[Schme]

However, both of these are within the power of State governments, unless it is forbidden in State constituition. In a number of states, that is not the case, and furthermore, state constituitions are easily changed.

[Stan]

Yes. That is true. In my post I said Congress could not pass a law. I agree with your statement.

Added:

Oh, when I said state religion I meant an official American religion. Is that part of the confusion?

[Nixit]

Schme... I don't think Nick is saying that people convert because of peer pressure. They are merely that religion because their parents were. That is basically what he's been saying I think.

And it's true... I know many Jewish people, who, after they had their bar (or bat) mitzvah, basically stopped attending their temple. Their only motivation was essentially the money that you get for your bar or bat mitzvah. And this is true for almost every Jewish person I know. They were brought up Jewish, seem proud to be it, but don't attend their temple any more.

(Note: This has nothing against Judaism, it's just the best example I can come up with).

[Stan]

Thus the difference between head knowledge and heart knowledge.

[Pie]

hmm... do they have music in temples? Sinagogs.. i think their called. If they are like the catholik chirches..... i would stop going to the temple at my bat watsamahuset to.

[Stan]

I personally got nothing out of the Catholic Church I grew up in either. I no longer attend a Catholic church.

[Stan]

We need a big programming change so everyone will go back to complaining.

[Pie]

well.. you could just accept one of my ideas. *imagines a tank distroying doryescom*

[Schme]

Pie, really, you should try to spell correctly at least most of the time. I cannot make out most of what you wrote.

They are called synagogues or temples. Both are correct.

hmm... do they have music in temples? Sinagogs.. i think their called. If they are like the catholik chirches..... i would stop going to the temple at my bat watsamahuset to.

Would you? How could you know? If you are not a believer, not faithful, than how can you know what it is like to be? Had you belief in and love for the great Devine, I have a feeling you would think differently. No disrespect, I’m just saying, you can’t really understand unless you’re feeling it, you know what I mean?

Oh, when I said state religion I meant an official American religion. Is that part of the confusion?

No. No confusion.

Schme... I don't think Nick is saying that people convert because of peer pressure. They are merely that religion because their parents were. That is basically what he's been saying I think.

And what I am saying is that it is rediculous to suggest a someone is not a true believer just because they were brought up to be one. Someone brought up with to believe certain things is just as faithful, if not more faithful, than a convert.

And it's true... I know many Jewish people, who, after they had their bar (or bat) mitzvah, basically stopped attending their temple. Their only motivation was essentially the money that you get for your bar or bat mitzvah. And this is true for almost every Jewish person I know. They were brought up Jewish, seem proud to be it, but don't attend their temple any more.

That is very different, although the phenomenon of people drifting away from the faith they were brought up in is very widespread, I don't deny that.

I personally got nothing out of the Catholic Church I grew up in either. I no longer attend a Catholic church.

Consider yourself lucky you we’re taken there. When I was little, I would beg my mother to take me to mass. She wouldn’t. Not because she was a non-believer, but because she was simply did not want to.

My father would promise to take me and then sleep through it, or get drunk, or spend time with one of his women.

I had to go on my own, and the nearest one was about six kilometers away. A very long walk.

We need a big programming change so everyone will go back to complaining.

I disagree. If you change what it is just too make people happy, you are sacrificing orthodoxy, which defeats the purpose. Christians have already forsaken too much of the scripture, if you ask me. Mohamed (peace be upon him) was very right when about that, let me tell you.

It’s not the number of people who come, or how much people like the Church. That’s not what counts.

[AoM]

I have all the head knowledge of a life raised within the Catholic Church. It did nothing for me, and the more I looked at their orthodox views, the more disenchanted with religion I got.

There's plenty of room in my heart to have faith in the people around me and in myself, and in my own beliefs about how God, the universe, and all things work. But for now I'll let reason do the talking, and stick with head-knowledge.

[Schme]

AoM, when I said orthodox views, I meant Catholic and Christian orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is not a solid trait that can be applied to anything. It's meaning is relative to what your talking about. And orthodox jew is very different from an orthodox sikh, to give an example.

And just because someone participates in organized worship and religion does not mean their beliefs are not their own. People so often think of people who pray and worship together as robots incapable or unwilling to think for themselves. This is not true. People just want to come together to worship. What is wrong with that?

Almost everyone I know and have known, all the people I grew up with, all of them came together in some way or another to pray.

And let me tell you, it was truly beautiful. I always wished that I was a part of it.

[Pie]

Schme, i know what your say'n... But i don't think you know what I'm say'in. That Feelling.. i know what your say'n, but it's like with platoe's jailer discritption, witch basicly sais this.


There were for men, witch were kept inside a cave for there intyer life, watching shadoes that appeard on the wall. They were chained together so they couldn't look behind them, so they just cept watching the shadoes. Then one of them was forced to look behind them, and was blinded. Then he got used to the light, and saw that there was a fier bhind them, with creatures infront of it to cast the shadows. He had never seen a real rabit, just the shadow of one. And then he goes outside, and is blinded again. He then gets used to the light. He finds that there are amaisingly green hils, butiful trees, and deer and wild animals to behold in this "new land". he then goes inside of the cave to tell his frends, but is blinded by the darkness, becous his eyes are still used to the light.

I wont continue the story, becous after that, it dosend really say what i want it to say.

now, what this sais, is that one of the jailers sees somthing more than just shadowes, somthing brighter than a cave wall, and is blinded by the light, so I'v experiansed somthing that i THINK is better than Episciple (witch i slept through) or methodes( managed to stay awake.. but was still board).

now Episciple chirches are branches frome the catholic's, and if they are anything like the catholiks, than the catholics are just as boaring. What i was saying, is if Jewism(spelling?) is anything like catholiks, they would be boaring to.

o.. and i think it is rediculous to think that somone only becomes a believer becous of peer presure,or that there parants were, and they were tought it in sunday school.. with chokolats as treets. becous many a person were ACTUALLY sinful before becoming a beleiver. It was (most defenatly)becous of that "feeling" that you have when you go to church.and if you DARE insult this without even going to church or any other religous meetings, than I WILL PERSONALLY MAKE COUNTLESS UNINPORTANT PRIVAT MESSAGES!! SO COUNTLES THAT YOU WILL PROBLABLY DELEAT SOMTHING IMPORTANT AND THEN EMPTY YOUR TRAsH!!!

oo.. and:

And just because someone participates in organized worship and religion does not mean their beliefs are not their own. People so often think of people who pray and worship together as robots incapable or unwilling to think for themselves. This is not true. People just want to come together to worship. What is wrong with that?

An example of this... ME!!!

[Stan]

We need a big programming change so everyone will go back to complaining.

I disagree. If you change what it is just too make people happy, you are sacrificing orthodoxy, which defeats the purpose. Christians have already forsaken too much of the scripture, if you ask me. Mohamed (peace be upon him) was very right when about that, let me tell you.

Actually, it was a joke. I meant we need a program change in Cantr so we stop the debates. But, it was just a joke. I fully believe my scripture is 100% true and without error. I would be considered orthodox Christian.

[Schme]

Actually, it was a joke. I meant we need a program change in Cantr so we stop the debates. But, it was just a joke. I fully believe my scripture is 100% true and without error. I would be considered orthodox Christian.

There is no such thing as orthodox christianity, as there are many different denominations of Christianity. An orthodox Orthodox Christian (that being, a follower of the Orthodox Church) would not be considered an orthodox Catholic, and an orthodox Catholic would not be considered and Orthodox Protestants.

And I must say that too think that the scripture was never changed, edited and corrupted at all is very foolish. It's common knowledge that much of the Toranic and Biblical scriptures have been changed and edited by clergy to better suit them in the past.

For example, in Judaic scripture, polygamy is permitted, and yet the Jews of Europe, Israel, America (among other places) insist on monogomy.

Another example. In the Judaic scriptures, a boy officially ascends to manhood at thirteen. The biblical scriptures do not refute this as being wrong, and yet it is ignored, the reason for this being because the people of Europe did not really care for this. It wasn't capatable with how they lived, and so they scrapped it.

These are just two of many many examples.

Not even the Catholic church holds are scripture to be original and true.

[AoM]

AoM, when I said orthodox views, I meant Catholic and Christian orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is not a solid trait that can be applied to anything. It's meaning is relative to what your talking about. And orthodox jew is very different from an orthodox sikh, to give an example.

or·tho·dox adj.
1.Adhering to the accepted or traditional and established faith, especially in religion.
2.Adhering to the Christian faith as expressed in the early Christian ecumenical creeds.
3.Orthodox
a.Of or relating to any of the churches or rites of the Eastern Orthodox Church.
b.Of or relating to Orthodox Judaism.
4.Adhering to what is commonly accepted, customary, or traditional: an orthodox view of world affairs.

Seems like a solid trait to me. Not that I was arguing that in the first place, but anyhoo... And as for the way I chose to use that particular adjective in my previous post... see above selections 1 and 4.

Thanks for trying to explain the idea of a double entendre to me as if I were a 6 year old. You don't come off as patronizing at all... </sarcasm>.

And just because someone participates in organized worship and religion does not mean their beliefs are not their own. People so often think of people who pray and worship together as robots incapable or unwilling to think for themselves. This is not true. People just want to come together to worship. What is wrong with that?

You have this really annoying habit of putting words in people's mouths to make it seem like you're winning an arguement. It's often refered to as the straw man fallacy. You somehow discerned from me saying that I was disenchanted with the orthodox views of the Catholic Church that I was insinuating that practicing Catholics (or people of any religion really) are automatons incapable of their own thought. This is obviously an absurd assumption, which you point out is wrong, as if I had said it was right in the first place. (Which I never did.)