Poll - Communism: Good or evil?

[SekoETC]

Everyone given the same benefits, it just doesn't work. Tried it in Cantr, citizens are given basic equipment, clothes, food, and in exchange they work for common good. Still everyone seems to have a built-in need for owning. They want to make things for themselves, even if there's loads of stuff in storage, just because if something can be given then it could as well be take away. And that you don't even need the tools you're hogging doesn't matter, you just wanna keep them because otherwise someone else would be hogging them and then you wouldn't have access to them when you need them! An attempt to make citizens write notes of what they're holding creates opposition even if the people didn't have anything but a bit of potatoes and shit like that.
If everyone could have work, that would be good. But if the jobs are dealt out by the government and you just get a letter that now you must go shoveling in a construction yard two towns over while you're trained as a salesman... it just doesn't work. Unless there's really strong propaganda that makes people want to do anything for the government. The ideal society would be that everyone was doing what they're good at, but that would require the ones organizing job dealings to know everything, and that's impossible unless they're God. Which leads to the fact that true communism could only be in a God-lead society. Which I believe has been said before. Hmph, why was this topic digged up anyway?

[Stan]

Seko, you hit the nail squarely on the head.

[Jetlag]

But if the jobs are dealt out by the government and you just get a letter that now you must go shoveling in a construction yard two towns over while you're trained as a salesman... it just doesn't work.

Which is why no country has ever tried to run it that way. Communist governments are not so stupid as to forget that giving someone work that suits them will benefit everyone.

As for the arguments about anything that can be given can be taken away, yes, that's true. For the system to work requires trust on all sides, and anyone who would be willing to screw other people over will assume that everyone is out to screw them over, whether that's true or not.

No, pure communism can't work in practice. That doesn't make it a dumb idea that sucks, it makes it impractical. It doesn't prevent it from encompassing some good ideals, and some good philosophies that can be worked towards. There is no such thing as a perfect system, but that doesn't mean we should just give up and not bother striving toward anything better than what we have.

[Stan]

Yep. I agree 100%.

[Jetlag]

I'd love to hear some stories about the virtues of communism from someone who actually lived in a communist society. I want to hear how great it is from them.

I just found this comment on a website and thought you might be interested. It's from a former soldier in the Red Army.

A lot of things were very bad during former USSR. We did not know about millions of people which had been killed by Stalin and his company because they were different, Gulags, etc. I think that communists would like to push history ahead too quickly and build communism everywhere. But they had to build concentration camps for many people within their own countries and in this sence they were very dangerous. But I have to say that a lot of things were quite positive - I mean social protection because we had a lot of things free of charge-medical care, education, etc. I read about unemployment only in the books but now we have a lot of poor and jobless people, anarchy and mafia games, wild capitalism which you in the West had passed 200 years ago. So, like in Russia they have 50 multi-millionaires who stole all property and 80 million people under living in extreme poverty.

What am I trying to say, that even cold war is not so primitive and simple as we thing, it's quite complicated issue.

It seems to me that many of the problems he talks about were to do with racism and exclusion, rather than communism itself.

[wichita]

Yes, exactly guys. It won't work if everyone is just given everything and redistributed like resources on the job market. I guess that's why I'm a selective socialist. Only the things that are most important to society should deserve regulation: health care, education, housing, security, groceries, etc. And when I say regulation, I am referring to maintaining a minimum quality baseline. If you want the absolute best health care, you can pay extra if you're able, but everybody should recieve the chance to not die. Class levels will never be abolished in practice, and they probably shouldn't be either. All other optional industhries could still be run in a traditional free market fashion.

And it's funny you mention a God-lead political system Seko, because the reason I believe in socialism is because I am Christian. I always find it amusing that right wing Christians are so quick to condemn communism as an athietic philosophy when it's core ideals are basically unselfish giving and fulfilling the needs of your neighbors. To me capitalism is inherently anti-christian because it is based on what I can do with my stuff and fosters the selfish behavior that Christianity is supposed to be opposed to. I have always believed that a Christian theocracy would be communistic for that reason.

[Stan]

That's interesting. I was going to go where you went on the comparison of Christian ideals to the ideals of Communism but I hesitated.

I hesitated because I was clear in my opinion that Communism cannot work in reality. which would lead some to believe that I would also think a Christian society could not work in reality.

I believe the main difference is that one is lead by man and other is led by God. This determines whether or not it is successful. Could a theocracy like the one during the Dark Ages in Europe work? Apparently not. I think the reason is that it was run by corrupt individuals just like modern dictatorships. It wasn't really a Christian theocracy, but a dictatorship disguised as such.

I am a Christian, too. That's why I believe in people GIVING to those in need under their own compulsion. I think the problem that exists is that those that HAVE do not give. The solution is not to MAKE them give.

[Appleide]

I'd love to hear some stories about the virtues of communism from someone who actually lived in a communist society. I want to hear how great it is from them.

Does Hong Kong count? If it does, I would be happy to tell you all about it.