London Blasts

[The Sociologist]

I don't think there is a huge divide... The fact that you assume any Muslim would feel 'alienated' is as racist as anything else... The vast majority of Muslims have distanced themselves from the bombings... don't use generalisations as backing for wild scaremongering.

Report: Tony Blair today pledged to mobilise "the moderate and true voice of Islam".

Amazing. So now Tony Blair, who is allied to the people responsible for the quotes in my previous post just above, has taken it upon himself to be an expert on the true and moderate voice of Islam.

Report: Charles Clarke, the home secretary, today challenged the EU to overcome concerns about civil liberties and agree to new counter-terrorism measures including the compulsory storage of phone and internet use records.

...while his pathetic little sidekick is hell-bent on making George Orwell's "1984" a reality. Your television is watching you!

(How did these people manage to take over the Labor Party?)

Report: He said he was "surprised and shocked" that the bombers had been British, but admitted a "large number" of people in the UK had been through terror training camps overseas.

...actually, the figure is about 3000, but none of those turned out to be the bombers in question.

So let's get this straight. Those who quote suitably "truthful and moderate" verses from the Qur'an, as defined by you, you extol. Those who quote verses you like less, you bind up with duct tape. Meanwhile you spy on everyone via their computers. And you do all this in the defense of what exactly? What is actually left to defend?

Ah yes, you should read this before you accuse me of misinterpreting feelings in Britain:
We rock the boat
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondo ... 35,00.html

[Pirog]

The Sociologist>

...Shall we continue our discussion of the nature of good and evil in the light of the above?

Very good. Sadly most war supporters seems to be either unaware (and that is scary to be about such a subject) or deliberatly forget that examples like the ones you gave are things that just happens in war.

Many of the war supporters on this forum and elsewhere still seems to have a romantic view of war...that it is somehow noble, like in so many war movies. It is dirty and evil and otherwise nice people get forced to do things that is every bit as evil as terrorist attacks.

I recently saw a program about American soldiers that commited suicide upon returning from Iraq. A parent told the reporter how his son had been preassured into shooting two unarmed Iraqis and that the guilt had totally crushed him. Things like that isn't even uncommon in war.

I don't support any acts of terrorism, but people need to understand that conventional warfare isn't fair and clinical either.

[SekoETC]

I read the newspaper this morning and there was lots of stuff about the bombers and their families. At first I thought are these reporters nuts??! When people see that fish and chips joint in the newspaper, you bet it doesn't take long til some jerk will go stone their windows. But after I read the stories they were very positive. If they started hiding things then people would have more reason to believe there's reason to blame the community and families for raising boys like this. But now (if people read the stories) they should realize they were all common people lead astray.

The bombers were victims!

I very much doubt anyone with extremist thoughts will run into my post but in case someone does, you are being tricked! Your leaders and trainers wouldn't sacrifice their lives for the cause. You're just being used as puppets. Why should you waste your lives and make your parents cry while the leaders are sitting in their castles, drinking Coca-Cola and laughing at the chaos they've caused? They don't care about you. Don't be a puppet. Let them do their own dirty work.

[Pirog]

I very much doubt anyone with extremist thoughts will run into my post but in case someone does, you are being tricked! Your leaders and trainers wouldn't sacrifice their lives for the cause. You're just being used as puppets. Why should you waste your lives and make your parents cry while the leaders are sitting in their castles, drinking Coca-Cola and laughing at the chaos they've caused? They don't care about you. Don't be a puppet. Let them do their own dirty work.

The same can be said to any soldier in any army though...

[Jur Schagen]

There's a slight difference, Pirog... the general "Western" army soldier fight by the old Patton quote: "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his" or, in other words, they hope or even expect NOT to die.

For suicide bombers, this is obviously not so.

[Darth_Tater]

Yer right...my leader probably doesnt care about my life. I mean listen to the song War Pigs by Black Sabbeth (( good song )). I was sent overseas to '' help inthe effort to rid the Iraqi people or an evil tyrant, and to find his weapons of mass destruction''...The reason I found myself there was for those people. When it comes to the prisoners being tortured ...well mmm hey crap happens. War isnt romantic, noble, glorious, and it sure isnt a fictious movie fantasy. I mean...I hate that I know what a '' battlefield'' (( hah I hate using that word cuz theres no such thing...a battlefield is someones backyard...imagine that happeing out back behind yer house )) but I hate knowing what a battlefield smells like. War is Hell.

I spent a few nights at the prison in Fallujah where all that misstreatment happened....I slept by one of saddams mass graves there...I have an opinion about the torture but...idunno I dont wanna make anyone mad or think anyless of me. I mean it was wierd to find out man while I was there that was going on? But it didnt suprise me...hey its war! wanna know what wars like? take the most deep,darkest, and horrific war movie you can think of..and mix it with the old TV show M*A*S*H...and thats war. Theres its ups and down..theres nothing great and noble about it...its all just a bad dream come true.

I'm not totally for war but believe that sometimes its nessesary (( if I spelt that right, sorry )) I saw the bad side of war for over a year, I try to look at what good comes out of it now. Terrorist attacks are always gonna happen and it will make me mad to no end when they do. But ya always gotta keep yer head up and think of the good yer doing. Iraq got to vote! And they had a great turn out! Females have alot more freedom now! They get torn to pieces every day for the allied forces being there, but alotta the ones I talked to think its worth it....its worth it. hehe suicide bomber think its worth it....I think it was worth risking mylife to go overthere. People all over the world are a pain in the @$$ and can be so negative. and everyones playing the game get like me. and I'm no different from anyone else...I'm a pain and all that jazz.

People are so different. And thats what makes life so entertaining...with out perspective we wouldnt have reality tv ..why cant we all just....get along

[wichita]

The power of the force is strong with you Darth Tater. It's a pleasure to be reading your posts. Thanks a lot for your insight.

[Darth_Tater]

May the force be with you Wichita..always

[Floyd]

And now it's all happening again, this is fucked up

[west]

Actually apparently this time they fudged it all up...only the detonators exploded on three of the bombs, and only one person died, I think.

[Floyd]

Yeah, but that probally means they'll just try it again, and again and again till they get what they want, probally be chemicall next time I just dont understand why any one would want to do that to London of all places! seriously, i've travelled alot, and i'm sure that any one else English or not, who's visited London understands how unique it is, it truly is the best city on earth. they got the hackney bus aswell... I used to live near Hackney

[Stan]

Precisely because it is a great city. The terrorists wish to destroy your way of life. Remember when they attacked the bar in Bali and the WTC (twice) and the Pentegon and the subway in Spain and the trains in Turkey and when they tried to blow up the Space Needle in Seattle (and were caught) and the beheading of truckdrivers, and the beheading of Daniel Pearl, etc, etc, etc. It's because they want to destroy your way of life. Not because they are freedom fighters or anything else, it's because they are hate mongers just like white supremisists, nazi's what have you.

They all have rationalizations but it's the same deep seeded hatred of people.

[Stan]

This sums it up pretty much exactly how I fall on this issue.

PRIME MIN. HOWARD: Could I start by saying the prime minister and I were having a discussion when we heard about it. My first reaction was to get some more information. And I really don't want to add to what the prime minister has said. It's a matter for the police and a matter for the British authorities to talk in detail about what has happened here.

Can I just say very directly, Paul, on the issue of the policies of my government and indeed the policies of the British and American governments on Iraq, that the first point of reference is that once a country allows its foreign policy to be determined by terrorism, it's given the game away, to use the vernacular. And no Australian government that I lead will ever have policies determined by terrorism or terrorist threats, and no self-respecting government of any political stripe in Australia would allow that to happen.

Can I remind you that the murder of 88 Australians in Bali took place before the operation in Iraq.

And I remind you that the 11th of September occurred before the operation in Iraq.

Can I also remind you that the very first occasion that bin Laden specifically referred to Australia was in the context of Australia's involvement in liberating the people of East Timor. Are people by implication suggesting we shouldn't have done that?

When a group claimed responsibility on the website for the attacks on the 7th of July, they talked about British policy not just in Iraq, but in Afghanistan. Are people suggesting we shouldn't be in Afghanistan?

When Sergio de Mello was murdered in Iraq -- a brave man, a distinguished international diplomat, a person immensely respected for his work in the United Nations -- when al Qaeda gloated about that, they referred specifically to the role that de Mello had carried out in East Timor because he was the United Nations administrator in East Timor.

Now I don't know the mind of the terrorists. By definition, you can't put yourself in the mind of a successful suicide bomber. I can only look at objective facts, and the objective facts are as I've cited. The objective evidence is that Australia was a terrorist target long before the operation in Iraq. And indeed, all the evidence, as distinct from the suppositions, suggests to me that this is about hatred of a way of life, this is about the perverted use of principles of the great world religion that, at its root, preaches peace and cooperation. And I think we lose sight of the challenge we have if we allow ourselves to see these attacks in the context of particular circumstances rather than the abuse through a perverted ideology of people and their murder.

PRIME MIN. BLAIR: And I agree 100 percent with that. (Laughter.)

[rklenseth]

It is mainly because we are a counterpoint to their agenda and philosophy and thus a threat to their existence as much as they are to ours. Thus we are their enemies and to them all of us who they are trying killing are not innocent as it is we that support the agenda and philosophy of our governments and without us those government and thus those agendas and philosophies would not exist or have any power. To us it may seem they have no honor but to them they are only doing what they think will preserve their way of life which is destroying ours.

It is why Humans will always war as long as we are allowed to freely think. But without free thinking there may be no pain but there will not be any pleasure either. There will be no grieve but no happiness. Thus in essence the point of Human existence will not exist and thus Humans will cease to exist at which point that'll be the only true peace.

[Darth_Tater]

Yea..they arent going to stop. Thats common sense. I mean look at alot of middle eastern countries and think about how long they have been waring. haha I mean hey even in Cantr there are groups and factions that war with one anothere just like these people....I mean hey, at an attempted to lighten to mood and hope in not to offend anyone....if they keep blowing themselves up wont be any of them left to attack us ...that was mean sorry. just gotta remember keep yer friends close and your enemys closer ya know? I saw on the news how they are now trying to understand what motivates a suicide bomber...kinda made me laugh cuz I got to thinking..'' my 6 wives left me...all 50 of my kids hate me...my second wife took my dog and my 6th took my tractor...ah hell Jihaad, I'll blow myself up''..And hey if its for the 60 virgins...if there in heaven and a virgin..dont think ya got a chance there buddy. I mean I'm sure it aint really the reason. But ya know there just now wanting to understand. hm...idunno...I mean what would they do with that knowledge? Profile people...'' uh oh that guys a potential bomber''? '' Your life sucks..we're watching you...''? '' You! You There!..Your too Islamic!! You might blow yerself up! we're watching you!''?...Idunno it would be a great bit of info but how would it be used?...maybe I'm blind to this matter.