Religions

[gejyspa]

I was just reading an interesting article on the web. One Orthodox Rabbi has the following posted on his door:

ATTENTION
ALL TRICK OR TREATERS!!!!

Instead of taking money to buy candy and treats to give to all of you, our family takes that money and gives it to an organization which takes care of poor and sick children.

We do this because we want to help other wonderful kids who are not as lucky as you because they don’t have enough money to buy fun things (like Halloween costumes), because they are sick, or because their parents don’t live with them anymore.

For each kid that signs below, we will give $3 to help poor and sick children. The more kids who sign, the more money we give, so please sign!

THE KORNBLAU FAMILY

Thoughts?

[Miri]

I like it very much, so much more than 'traditional' Halloween.

[Doug R.]

The note is way too long. They'd get more signups if it were concise. Most people would read the first sentence and move along, especially if it was cold.

Nice sentiment, though.

[Doug R.]

The answer, which I sincerely hope you won't be offended by, because I am not intending to offend, is that I am forbidden from doing so by the Torah. See Ex. 13:23

Why would this offend me? I just found it odd during a scholarly discussion of religion that you'd be abbreviating in what I considered until now a childish way. Thank you for the enlightenment. Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a verse 23 in chapter 13 of Exodus, so I think you mis-typed something.

[gejyspa]

The answer, which I sincerely hope you won't be offended by, because I am not intending to offend, is that I am forbidden from doing so by the Torah. See Ex. 13:23

Why would this offend me? I just found it odd during a scholarly discussion of religion that you'd be abbreviating in what I considered until now a childish way. Thank you for the enlightenment. Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a verse 23 in chapter 13 of Exodus, so I think you mis-typed something.

To quote Willy Wonka in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (not to be confused with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory) "Strike that! Reverse that!" I meant Ex. 23:13

[Doug R.]

13 “Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.

Ok, however, does this technically apply to Jesus? I mean, we believe that he is the same as your God (not "another god"), and since you don't believe he's a god, it seems that you'd be on safe ground here, technically speaking (he's either not a god at all, or if he is, he's the same as yours).

[DylPickle]

I was just reading an interesting article on the web. One Orthodox Rabbi has the following posted on his door:

ATTENTION
ALL TRICK OR TREATERS!!!!

Instead of taking money to buy candy and treats to give to all of you, our family takes that money and gives it to an organization which takes care of poor and sick children.

We do this because we want to help other wonderful kids who are not as lucky as you because they don’t have enough money to buy fun things (like Halloween costumes), because they are sick, or because their parents don’t live with them anymore.

For each kid that signs below, we will give $3 to help poor and sick children. The more kids who sign, the more money we give, so please sign!

THE KORNBLAU FAMILY

Thoughts?

Where I come from, the school board hands out little cardboard boxes to the kids so they can collect small donations for UNICEF while out collecting candy. It worked pretty well, and I can remember good sums of money were raised in my school alone, not to mention citywide. Plus, the little dressed up kids, trudging door to door through the snow and the chill still get candy. If every municipal district did something like this, you'd see amazing results for fundraising different charities for kids. Of course, this particular movement had nothing to do with religion, but instead a collaboration between institutions.

On the topic of Halloween, I've always been surprised that some churches still regard Halloween with such suspicion and hostility. Certain churches promote themselves around the idea of "community", yet fail to accept Halloween as a community builder. On what other day can you go around and speak to every one of your neighbours? Kids meet other kids. It is about dialogue. It is about presence. it's about community, just as much as it's about fun and dressing up.

What the Kornblau family did was very thoughtful, but if everyone did that, you'd get no signatures because nobody would bother to go out. There are other ways the day can be used to the advantage of everyone, without sacrificing parts of its essence.

[BrentW]

I must say I love the 21st Century. Even in the past Century a civil conversation about this topic and what is being brought up in this topic would have been a lot harder if not possible all together. We has a people are changing idea are being shared and welcomed. Was the internet the greatest invention of all time? No. Was it the greatest for human understanding and the evolution of ideas yes.

[gejyspa]

13 “Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.

Ok, however, does this technically apply to Jesus? I mean, we believe that he is the same as your God (not "another god"), and since you don't believe he's a god, it seems that you'd be on safe ground here, technically speaking (he's either not a god at all, or if he is, he's the same as yours).

Ah, but that's the point, you see. We don't believe him to be any more of a god than, say, (and with no other comparison intended) the Philistine god Dagon. But other people DO. The verse here isn't talking about other _real_ gods, because there ain't no such thing (that's the whole idea of monotheism). It's talking about those things/idols/people/what-have-you that people worship as if they were real gods. So sure, if you believe he is one and the same as God, no problem giving his name (as I do when saying the word "God" (capital G) rather than the Hebrew version of the name, or "Allah", which is simply the Arabic version referring to the same single entity.). But since we Jews don't, we can't. (And in case you're wondering, I did use the Philistine idol's name in its entirety because I believe that if there currently are any people who actually worship him, their number must be vanishingly small, so I doubt there's any danger of people mistaking me as actually giving a credence to his supposed divinity).

See, this is the part where offense might be taken.

[Joshuamonkey]

13 “Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.

Ok, however, does this technically apply to Jesus? I mean, we believe that he is the same as your God (not "another god"), and since you don't believe he's a god, it seems that you'd be on safe ground here, technically speaking (he's either not a god at all, or if he is, he's the same as yours).

I really don't think that that would follow the meaning of the verse though. If it was, it'd be like "Don't say the names of other Gods, like Baal, but if the people of Baal (or only some of them) claim that Baal is the same being as your God, then it's okay."

[gejyspa]

I must say I love the 21st Century. Even in the past Century a civil conversation about this topic and what is being brought up in this topic would have been a lot harder if not possible all together. We has a people are changing idea are being shared and welcomed. Was the internet the greatest invention of all time? No. Was it the greatest for human understanding and the evolution of ideas yes.

Respectfully disagree, BrentW. I've had plenty of respectful discussions on this topic in the "dark ages" of pre-internet. It ain't the HOW or WHEN that's the important, it's the WHO. If you have people who approach things open-mindedly and respectfully, there is nothing that can't be discussed. (And let's not forget Nostra Aetate came out in 1961). If anything, in most parts of the world, ideas about religion are calcifying and it's much WORSE now than it was 50 years ago, because of this very internet. Because it's ALSO much easier with the internet to find like-minded people who will do things like fly planes into buildings, and so forth.

[gejyspa]

13 “Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.

Ok, however, does this technically apply to Jesus? I mean, we believe that he is the same as your God (not "another god"), and since you don't believe he's a god, it seems that you'd be on safe ground here, technically speaking (he's either not a god at all, or if he is, he's the same as yours).

I really don't think that that would follow the meaning of the verse though. If it was, it'd be like "Don't say the names of other Gods, like Baal, but if the people of Baal (or only some of them) claim that Baal is the same being as your God, then it's okay."

+1. You got it. That's the point (we obviously crossposted)

[Andu]

I'm also wonder why people hold one religious scripture as a higher authority than another.
What makes them an authority, other than themself just stating so?

Other than restating my earlier question(was it too short to be answered? ) I wonder do we have any muslims here? I read recently about their profet's life, and I got shocked about a few things regarding his wifes.

[Joshuamonkey]

I'm also wonder why people hold one religious scripture as a higher authority than another.
What makes them an authority, other than themself just stating so?

I think this mostly has to do with who they do consider to have authority (prophets, etc.) to tell which scripture is most correct and what it means. In my religion, we believe that that the Book of Mormon is the most correct, and important, book of scripture, with the premise that it was translated and written by revelation and wasn't affected by the judgments of men like the Bible. Perhaps Muslims feel similarly about the Qur'an in relation to other scriptures (and following what a Muslim told me in rl, they do).

[gejyspa]

I'm also wonder why people hold one religious scripture as a higher authority than another.
What makes them an authority, other than themself just stating so?

Well, I can't speak for anything other than Judaism, but the usual argument in brief goes like this -- the claim that the revelation to millions of people at Mt. Sinai (600,000 men between the ages of 20-60+the uncounted women and children) happened must be true, simply because there's no point in time when you could simply state that such a thing happened long ago and that you must follow 613 laws and that you know this because your (grand)father passed it along to you and his to him and so on up until the event itself. In order for there to have been a conspiracy to get these laws followed by and passed down among the entire Jewish people with a made up story to go along with it, it would have to have involved the ENTIRE Jewish people (already known stereotypically in the Bible as a "stiff-necked" bunch who would use any excuse not to obey God), else you'd have whistleblowers saying, "Hey, they lied, that never happened. The king just made that up twenty years ago". This is quite different then the claim that God or an angel spoke to a single human being (an event witnessed by none or a few) telling them stuff X,Y, and Z. (One can certainly argue the case that the event was not what it appeared to be, that it was aliens, or Moses was some kind of mass hypnotist or creator of then-unknown technology to create the special effect necessary, or whatever, but it's much harder to claim that no such event took place).

Hence, to the extent that the five books of the Torah says, "this is it, this is the final word, and I'm not changing it and don't believe anything anybody coming after says about changing it", the Torah has to have the veto authority over anything subsequent.

And again, this doesn't necessarily preclude the idea that God didn't give different laws to people other than the Jews, but that's why the Torah is authoritative for us.