Trouble In The Netherlands

[Nixit]

That's a subjective matter, I'm afraid Stan. I'm sure some people hate beer, yet love the taste of a joint.

[Stan]

Wow! Really? Now I've learned something on the forums.

[Racetyme]

I hate how alchohol tastes, and weed is the best smelling thing on earth, straight up.

[Nixit]

Wow! Really? Now I've learned something on the forums.

Thank you for your sarcasm, Stan...

[Stan]

No, seriously, that wasn't sarcasm. I have never heard anyone say that before.

[Jos Elkink]

I never tried a joint, but I can't imagine it's worse than beer!

[Racetyme]

Havn't you ever at least smelled it? It's a lot like vanilla. Anyway that is the closest thing I can compare it to.

[Jur Schagen]

You can't have been raised in Holland and never smelt it...

Jur.

[Stan]

I never tried a joint, but I can't imagine it's worse than beer!

My whole world perspective has been changed in a matter of hours! A Dutch guy from Holland, the home of Heineken and who now resides in Ireland not liking beer...unbelievable.

I'm kidding of course, but I am really surprised by the overwhelming dislike for it.

[Jos Elkink]

You can't have been raised in Holland and never smelt it...

I'm so Dutch that I can't distinguish it from a 'normal' smell ... When I walked through Amsterdam with a Russian friend, he said every street corner smelt like a joint, but I still didn't notice ...

Ok, I'm not brilliant at smelling things in general either ...

My whole world perspective has been changed in a matter of hours! A Dutch guy from Holland, the home of Heineken and who now resides in Ireland not liking beer...unbelievable.

Heh. At least you know Heineken is Dutch ... most people here seem to think it's German

I'm kidding of course, but I am really surprised by the overwhelming dislike for it.

Hmm, two or three people is hardly 'overwhelming' ... People are still very surprised when I tell them I don't like beer ... They immediately think I must not drink alcohol ... but I love wodka, wine, Baileys, and many others ...

[SekoETC]

How did this topic turn into alcohol? Anyway I don't like beer either - but Bailey's rules! Mmm gotta go to the liquer store tomorrow...

[Nixit]

No, seriously, that wasn't sarcasm. I have never heard anyone say that before.

Oh, sorry then. *mutters* ...stupid internet...

[Jos Elkink]

How did this topic turn into alcohol?

Yes, wasn't that smartly manouvred away from a scary topic about the Netherlands turning into some kind of racist topic to a funny discussion about smelling weed?

[Schme]

I'm Canadian, and disagree with Schme on this subject. I believe in the separation of church and state, especially when it comes to education. Children are impressionable and in many countries, people become Christian just because that's what the majority does.

Where? What are you talking about? I, personally, have never, never in my life seen anyone convert because of peer pressure. That is a truly ridiculous suggestion.

Where does it happen, Nick?

From my experience, it is the exact opposite. I shall give you an example. I grew up in an immigrant community, and the schools I went to we’re predominantly filled by immigrants. Nearly half of these we’re muslims from various parts of the world. There were also a large number of first generation children who were muslims. Did they convert to Christianity because most Canadians are Christian? Like hell. In fact, many of them became fervently religious to a degree that they never would have been in their country of origin. Their ghettoization made them stick together.

The same thing happened with the Punjabs, the Indians, the Vietnamese, the guys from Mali.

Nobody converts for the hell of it.

I bet there are very few people, in proportion, who have chosen their religion because it suits their beliefs. Rather than having "found" their religion, which some can base their lives heavily on, many just become the religion they are by "default". I have nothing against Christianity as a practice, I just dislike the incredible number of "default Christians".

What do you mean “Christian by default”?

From what I understand, you are implying that people raised to follow a certain religious do not have genuine faith. Religion to suit their beliefs? Religion is belief.

Nobody can force belief onto you. Someone can bring you up to believe something, someone can try to get you to believe something, but no one can make you believe something.

And are you saying religious people should not bring up their children and tell them what they know to be truth? If you really were religious, to not do so would just be idiotic, if not sinful. And if religion is not taught, it will not exist. It doesn’t come from nowhere.

To suggest that people who were brought up with a certain faith adhere to it by default and not real faith is disgusting.

Believe me, one of the mistakes you can make as a parent is to bring up your children without faith.

My family was a Catholic one, but mother and fathers generation seemed to have missed the boat. I (aswell as my cousins) were brought up without any religious teachings at all. Never was I taught anything.

Throughout my childhood, everyone around me was deeply religious, and I was left in the dark.

“Why does your brother wear that turban?” I remember asking as a little child as I played in the park with my friends. “To cover his hair, out of respect for god.” Answered my friend.

“Where has your mother gone?” I asked another friend while at his home (Some time later). “She is making the Haj with my grandmother and my uncle.” He answered.

“You see, the Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed himself so that we could be saved.” Explained a friend of mine once.

I always felt terribly left out. I had to find the Lord God on my own. I have always regretted it.





But, so, you believe we should pull a France type law, do you Nick? You really think so?

You may have noticed that we do not actually teach any Christian doctrine in our schools. Do you suggest that we, like France, ban all religious symbols too? Why? Please, explain to me what in god’s name you want to accomplish like that.

Why don’t you look into that a bit more. See how well it’s working for them over in France.

How well do you think it would go down in Canada, anyway?

How do you propose to do it?

Come on, man. That’s just stupid.

I think Nick's post is dead on. I'll take it even a step farther, though.

Stan, you and Nick are pretty well saying the very opposite thing.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

All this means is that that there cannot legally be any federal laws having anything to do with religion at all.

Schools are State jurisdiction. This rule only applies to your National Congress, not to individual states.

. [/quote]

[Stan]

I think Nick's post is dead on. I'll take it even a step farther, though.

Stan, you and Nick are pretty well saying the very opposite thing.

Nick stated that he was for separation of Church and State. I agree with this. In my opinion, what he intends is that it be against the law to have religious symbols in schools. I disagree with his intention, but I agree with his post.

I disagree with his last paragraph, though, and don't recall seeing it. But, I do agree some people are raised in pseudo-religious households and do not come to "believe". I think many people understand the relgion but do not have a heartfelt belief.

If you've come to know the Lord God, then you will understand what I mean. There is head knowledge and there is heart knowledge.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

All this means is that that there cannot legally be any federal laws having anything to do with religion at all.

Schools are State jurisdiction. This rule only applies to your National Congress, not to individual states.

That is true. It means our federal government cannot require a state religion nor can they outlaw religious symbols in public schools. Praise the Lord.