Religion

[Joshuamonkey]

The Empty tomb is quite easy, someone moved the body, there was a whole day before they went to the tomb. Memorisation is not infalible, the written text has been changed many times since the original writing so nothing is constant.

Oh boy, this is pointless.

Except.. You have to believe in God to go to heaven.

That is corrupt. I believe that god is a perfect being so I can't believe this.
That is, unless you have a good explanation as to the people that have never heard of God, and were just grown up some certain way? What happened to mercy?

[west]

I was raised very conservatively by people who were nonetheless sincere, loving and understanding Christians. They frequently had as many doctrinal issues with the "church" as I do (and did), but it never really wavered their beliefs, perhaps because they both grew up in pretty bad homes in which their parents also happened to be atheist; certainly there's something to be said for being raised in an environment where your parents believe in your worth as a created being and want to nurture you in a safe and loving environment. And no, I don't believe you need to be religious to do that.

As for where I am now, I suppose I'm agnostic. The Christian subculture that I've always been aware of and never really part of just totally turns me off, and it's gotten so that I can't sit through a church service or a Bible study or anything anymore without getting profoundly uncomfortable.

I can't rule out the existence of a God, and throughout my life I've had experiences that seemed to affirm or reaffirm the idea that there was a divine being out there with perfect love who wants His creatures to be happy and fulfilled (which are not the same thing). But currently I'm conflicted as to whether or not such a being exists. Sometimes I feel he could, and sometimes I'm not so sure.

What I am sure about, though, is that whether or not there is a God or a higher power or anything else, people do not have free reign to do what they want.

Our responsibility is first to our fellow humans, to do what we can to alleviate suffering, show love, and bring hope to the world, as Jesus and others have taught.

Similarly, we should show proper appreciation and care for the world we've come to find ourselves in a position of power over: to keep the environment clean and healthy not just for ourselves but for our children and all the living things that we share it with.

And finally we should strive for inner peace and coming to terms with the world around us, understanding ourselves and our part in the larger whole. And understanding that, as one of the apostles wrote, "'Everything is permissable' but not everything is beneficial." Even if there is no higher law or moral code that we are required to follow we should take care of each other, our environment and ourselves. The Golden Rule is the only true religion: Do unto others as you would have done unto you." Call it Karma, call it Ethics, call it Morality, call it what you will. That is our responsibility as human beings to each other and to the world we live in.

That is what I believe. The rest is (to me) ephemeral and unimportant. You can fight over which way is the way to heaven, and how you should live to get there and who gets to go and who doesn't. But heaven's another story, and nobody can say what's on the other side of death. The life we're living now is the only one we can be absolutely certain of, so what we do while we're here to make the world better is what we should worry about. The rest is details.

[Mykey]

It is remarkable, it is the valuable information

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I was raised very conservatively by people who were nonetheless sincere, loving and understanding Christians. They frequently had as many doctrinal issues with the "church" as I do (and did), but it never really wavered their beliefs, perhaps because they both grew up in pretty bad homes in which their parents also happened to be atheist; certainly there's something to be said for being raised in an environment where your parents believe in your worth as a created being and want to nurture you in a safe and loving environment. And no, I don't believe you need to be religious to do that.

As for where I am now, I suppose I'm agnostic. The Christian subculture that I've always been aware of and never really part of just totally turns me off, and it's gotten so that I can't sit through a church service or a Bible study or anything anymore without getting profoundly uncomfortable.

I can't rule out the existence of a God, and throughout my life I've had experiences that seemed to affirm or reaffirm the idea that there was a divine being out there with perfect love who wants His creatures to be happy and fulfilled (which are not the same thing). But currently I'm conflicted as to whether or not such a being exists. Sometimes I feel he could, and sometimes I'm not so sure.

What I am sure about, though, is that whether or not there is a God or a higher power or anything else, people do not have free reign to do what they want.

Our responsibility is first to our fellow humans, to do what we can to alleviate suffering, show love, and bring hope to the world, as Jesus and others have taught.

Similarly, we should show proper appreciation and care for the world we've come to find ourselves in a position of power over: to keep the environment clean and healthy not just for ourselves but for our children and all the living things that we share it with.

And finally we should strive for inner peace and coming to terms with the world around us, understanding ourselves and our part in the larger whole. And understanding that, as one of the apostles wrote, "'Everything is permissable' but not everything is beneficial." Even if there is no higher law or moral code that we are required to follow we should take care of each other, our environment and ourselves. The Golden Rule is the only true religion: Do unto others as you would have done unto you." Call it Karma, call it Ethics, call it Morality, call it what you will. That is our responsibility as human beings to each other and to the world we live in.

That is what I believe. The rest is (to me) ephemeral and unimportant. You can fight over which way is the way to heaven, and how you should live to get there and who gets to go and who doesn't. But heaven's another story, and nobody can say what's on the other side of death. The life we're living now is the only one we can be absolutely certain of, so what we do while we're here to make the world better is what we should worry about. The rest is details.

By far the best post I've come across in this thread.

[Dee]

I agree with you, Hermi!!

[tiddy ogg]

I'd like to refer you to Robert Rankin's book, "The Hollow Chocolate Bunnies Of The Apocalypse." He's like Steven King on laughing gas.
He mentions a cult, the Sisters of the Unseeable Uppance, believed in by many dolls of the kind that have weighted eyelids. If they ever see the sky they believe the end is nigh... and as one of the first signs of demise in these dolls is sticky eyelids, their faith is justified.

[formerly known as hf]

He's not the Messiah

He's a very naughty boy

[Joshuamonkey]

He's a very naughty boy

Because he caused millions of people to die over conflict of him?

[Jack Dudeman]

*shakes his head & chuckles*

Don't tell me you've never seen the funniest movie ever made about blasphemy!

[Pie]

Ok, here is proof of apostle pauls life. And it took a LOOOONG time to find.

4. But also let others be remembered, who, after them, accepted the conflict, and were counted worthy to stand in the true conflict for Christ. Now as worthy of our commemoration, let the men be remembered who, after these, were the |133 elect, and who, without reproach and violence, with their souls affirmed the faith,28--those who were counted worthy to receive the hope of the apostles. Let there be honoured in our commemoration then, both Asclepiades and Serapion, and Philetus, and Zebinas, and Demetrius, and Flavianus, and Cyrillus (?), and Sosipater, and Andrew, and Babylas, and Caerealis (?), and Izabenus(?). and Zenobius, and [b]Paulus[b/], a kinsman, who was counted worthy to stand in the divine portion, and to be of it. Let Marinus also hasten, and to heaven let Fronto come, and the abstinent old man Hippolytus.29


Heres a few links.

http://kevin.davnet.org/articles/paul.html
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_encomium.htm

[Jack Dudeman]

Pie, again your 'proof' is what is written in the bible.

The information from one of the links says that the only account of St. Paul's life is from the New Testament. If you believe what's in the bible, then you are a Christian, and do not need proof of anything. Your belief is based on faith.

Faith and fact are two very different things.

[Pie]

You diddnt even TRY to go to my posted links, did you. That information is actually frome Eusebius of Caesarea (died c. 340) and his contemporaries in the first quarter of the 4th century.

And that prooves that apostle paul (at the least, wich is all we need) was a real person. Wich proves revalations, and corinthions, and maby a few other's that i forgot.


Shall I go on to other apostles?

Oh, and one question. Pleas, for my sake, so i can change my ways, give me an example of me using the bible as proof when the bible WASN'T justified by the compleat marterdom of the writers of the bible?

[Jack Dudeman]

I'm not going to argue religion with you only, Pie. You are so blinded by your faith that you cannot use logic or reason. And that is all I will say of that.

Now:

There are no reliable sources for Paul's life outside the New Testament.

That is a sentence right out of the first link that you gave... I don't think I have to explain any further.

Again... to believe in your heart what was written about the apostles, you must have faith in Christianity. You have to understand that not everyone believes what you do.

[Pie]

Of course I believe that.

But I think he was talking about his LIFE. about how he lived and died..... and stuff. We got one reference, probably becous of THAT DARN EMPEROR NERO!!! (darn him.) burning up jeruselem in 70 A.D... by the way.... what do the dead sea scrolls say? I'v always wonderd....

You know, I have my doubts. True, I am "blinded" by my faith, just as alot of you are "blinded" by your's. Everyon has there unquestionable beliefes.(Were did i hear that before.....) And also, In acts, It does say to ponder and study something before believing it. but I cannot post a link, I'm too tired.

[N-Aldwitch]

If you ever use faith in a philosophical argument you are basically signing yourself up to lose the debate, Pie.