Religion specifics. Questions about a religion?

[Antichrist_Online]

Well, might as well indulge in the spilling of belief systems.

I'm what alot of people I know would call Agnostic Pagan. That is I believe the general stuff, but not in the names of gods, places or things. I believe them to be a rationalisation of the greater power.

My beliefs can be summed up as:
Nature is a sencient, powerful creating neutral force/being (which is personified by 'mother nature')
Death is a equally powerful and neurtal destructive force/being.
Good and evil are just manefestations of the sides of the balance caused by the equilibrium of the two neutral powers.

I also belive in a sort of karma, where by upsetting the balance causes acts to occur, tilting both in the good and bad directions, till equilibrium is reached.

The main moral thing is: "Do to others no harm" which to me means that anything is allowable in the right context.

Sex is regarded as a spiritual thing, not the shunned thing in the post pagan organised religions, which relised it can be used to control rather than empower the masses. If they are close to the spirits why do you need priests?

On a side note, I've done something most haven't, which is to read the bible from start to finish continually, as have I read the Tao I Ching. (There is more contridictions in that book(the bible not the Tao I Ching than in any arguement put forth for anyother religion.) I'd like to read the Qu'ran at some point but I'd need a good accurate translation. (I'm limited to English, Latin, German and Japanese for reading)

[Joshuamonkey]

There's a bunch of stuff contridictory to Mormons also.

The reason why religions shouldn't rule is because then it encourages other religions to rule as well. So even if its a good religion that's ruling, another bad religion will come and rule. Our church tries to stay away from politics, though we try to go around to any country we can.

[formerly known as hf]

The reason why religions shouldn't rule is because then it encourages other religions to rule as well. So even if its a good religion that's ruling, another bad religion will come and rule. Our church tries to stay away from politics, though we try to go around to any country we can.

Who defines a bad religion?

I'm sure all those heretic, evil, devil-eyed muslims actually think they're a pretty good religion, and that the christians are the blasphemous, evil, devil-eyed ones...

[deadboy]

I don't think he means that muslims are a bad religion. A bad religion is basically defined by one that goes against those universal truths that you deny exist HF . Such as one with human sacrifice

[formerly known as hf]

A bad religion is basically defined by one that goes against those universal truths that you deny exist HF . Such as one with human sacrifice

I feel like I would be doing my head less pain by bangng my head against a brick wall.

You suggest that a religion is UNVERSALLY bad if it sacrifices humans?
If believers in such a religion think it is good, it can not, therefore, be UNIVERSALLY bad. It is, to them at least, good.

[Joshuamonkey]

Wasn't this already discussed? Not what "humans" think is bad or good, but what is really bad or good. Like the Lord would decide.

edit: I still want to say "Heavenly Father", so if I say that, that's what it means.

[formerly known as hf]

Yeah, in the other thread, but deadboy dragged it kicking and screamig to this one.

Like the lord would decide

Wasn't the final decision, at least not on my part...

[Stan]

I agree that these days its better that a religion doesn't rule the government. Out of all the countries, I like the United States' system the best.

? That's kinda contradictory - I don't think I've ever seen a western government more ruled by religion, in this case, that of right-wing Christianity.

I disagree. Of course there will be Christians in the government and influencing the government because most Americans consider themselves Christians. But, it isn't a theocracy. That's total rubbish HF. Come on. I respect your intelligence and knowledge so in this case you are really misinformed or spreading propoganda.

I know there are non-Christians and people on the Liberal side of American politics that might argue with me too, but if you really think this is true, please start another thread and let's debate this one.

I think if you start to define a theocracy point by point you'll come to a different conclusion.

If your argument is that American government reflects the attitudes and heart of America then I'll give you that one. If you're arguing George Bush is some type of supreme mullah or whatever, then let's wait until the next election and see if he announces himself as such and takes control of the government or if he retires to his ranch and someone else becomes President.

America invented democracy and still remains a democracy.

[west]

The only religion most politicians in America subscribe to is money.

I'm continually surprised how many people apparently still believe George Bush when he says he's a Christian. There must be some lost sayings of Jesus (his favorite philosopher, after all) that advocate preemptive warfare, spying on people, killin' and murderin', destroying the environment, threatening people so you can get what you want, and selling out to big business.

[Stan]

The only religion most politicians in America subscribe to is money.

I used to think this wasn't true, but I'm starting to agree with you. I have gotten fairly close to government in the last few years, and even on the local level winning an election would require some pretty shady things, in my opinion.

[Nixit]

America invented democracy and still remains a democracy.

A small technicality (sp?), but didn't the Greek's invent democracy (though it was highly exclusive).

[Joshuamonkey]

Hey! Don't you check your posts after you post? There's also previews. Stan said that, not me.

[formerly known as hf]

I disagree. Of course there will be Christians in the government and influencing the government because most Americans consider themselves Christians. But, it isn't a theocracy. That's total rubbish HF. Come on. I respect your intelligence and knowledge so in this case you are really misinformed or spreading propoganda.

I know there are non-Christians and people on the Liberal side of American politics that might argue with me too, but if you really think this is true, please start another thread and let's debate this one.

I think if you start to define a theocracy point by point you'll come to a different conclusion.

I wasn't suggesting that the US is a theocracy, also, I said western government. Between Europe and North America, I don't think it's hard to see that the right-wing Christian lobby is the strongest and has the most power over politics in the US than any other religious body elsewhere in the west.

If your argument is that American government reflects the attitudes and heart of America then I'll give you that one.

Which is what I was arguing. The Christian movement is by far the strongest in the US, thus, it is unsurprising that in a democracy, they have the most power. Whilst I disagree with the majority of policies enacted by right-wing Christian thinking, I will not dispute that it is a politics which is actually widely representative of, as you put it, the heart of America.

What I was trying to point out, to Joshuamonkey, is that you can not really argue that religion is not a good basis for a government, or for politics, when you live in a country where the politics are dominated by a religion, albeit via the machinations of democracy, rather than thoecracy.

America invented democracy and still remains a democracy.

? Now, that, smells like real propaganda, I hope that was slip, rather than something sincere?

Democracy, albeit far removed from contemporary democracy, was first found in India. A few centuries BC (I don't remember when). Then it was the basis for government in Athens soon after. Democracy is, in fact, to word of Greek origin, first used by the Ancient Athenians to describe the political regime in parts of India - i.e: it was democratic, not a monarchy.

You could, I suppose, argue that contemporary democracy was born in America, but that'd be propaganda too.
The Magna Carter, which limited the power of the King of England, and laid the path for the first elected Parliament, in 1260-something. The influence of the magna carter is clear in the American Institution.
That's not to suggest that England was by any means the birthplace of contemporary democracy. Other European states were doing similar things, notably Poland. The French revolution is also an important turining point.

The US may have spear-headed its own type of democracy, one which is popular worldwide now, but it is one heavily based upon preceeding European designs.

[Stan]

The US may have spear-headed its own type of democracy, one which is popular worldwide now, but it is one heavily based upon preceeding European designs.

Yeah, yeah, you're right. That's called haste on my part. That's why I respect your knowledge. Either way, America is STILL a democracy.

[Nixit]

JoshuaMonkey: Yeah, my bad. Typo.