Trouble In The Netherlands

[Nixit]

Ooh boy DylPickle, I sense you are going to get slammed for that one in the future.

[Jos Elkink]

But seeing as the Netherlands is a society like that, it’s government should try hold uphold what it preaches. And more importantly, they should do what is right.

Yeah, we actually totally agree there ... As I said, I think I'd draw the same conclusion as you do, but just thought the article was being too inflammatory and skimming too easily over very complicated issues (e.g. banning religious symbols in public schools).

Any yes, I wrote this. I heard about it. You want to know my sources? Not being in a coma. That’s them.

I think that's not a very good source for an article ... I mean, you can add a lot of personal opinion, but if you cite laws etc., you should probably make sure you have the details right. But alas, that's up to you, of course ...

And as for "American", "Canadian" and "Bosnian" perspective, well, not everyone has the same perspective just because they are from the same nation. I'm sure some Canadians see things differently than me, as some Americans see things differently than other Americans.

Yes, I know that, and I would always argue that same way as well, I was being a bit sloppy there ... I just meant to say that the whole thing that the reason for this new policy in the Netherlands would be fear that people hide terrorist weapons seems implausible to me, and is probably due to projecting fears that live elsewhere on the Dutch people ...

If I say 'American fear', I'm not necessarily saying you are American, or that all Americans think this way.

The whole Canadians being different than Americans thing, that a whole other story, you know?

Yeah, I should have noticed you were Canadian and didn't check ... My fault. I *know* Canadians are different from Americans.

[Schme]

Yeah, we actually totally agree there ... As I said, I think I'd draw the same conclusion as you do, but just thought the article was being too inflammatory and skimming too easily over very complicated issues (e.g. banning religious symbols in public schools).

Well, I don't see how I was being inflammatory. It's what's happening that's inflamatory, and believe me, I mean that in the most literal sense possible.

This will end very badly for the entire nation if everyone does not come to their senses.

And see, the banning of religious symbols in public schools is different from this. The French know that if they tried to do any that and apply it to everywhere, they'd have to declare martial law at the same time. But the Netherlands is not the same country as France. It's hard for me to explain, although I don't find that issue to complex.

Any yes, I wrote this. I heard about it. You want to know my sources? Not being in a coma. That’s them.

I don't have the same kind of resources as a nationwide news corperation.

Yes, I know that, and I would always argue that same way as well, I was being a bit sloppy there ... I just meant to say that the whole thing that the reason for this new policy in the Netherlands would be fear that people hide terrorist weapons seems implausible to me, and is probably due to projecting fears that live elsewhere on the Dutch people ...

If I say 'American fear', I'm not necessarily saying you are American, or that all Americans think this way.

No, I know that. I know what you mean. I'm just saying, you know?

Yeah, I should have noticed you were Canadian and didn't check ... My fault. I *know* Canadians are different from Americans.

No, does not matter all to much. Don’t worry about it. All I mean is that we are talking about the Netherlands, rather than North America and what North Americans perceive. It’s Holland that counts here, and not what people far away think of Holland.

[Jos Elkink]

Any yes, I wrote this. I heard about it. You want to know my sources? Not being in a coma. That’s them.

I don't have the same kind of resources as a nationwide news corperation.

You have the entire internet ...

No, I know that. I know what you mean. I'm just saying, you know?

::nods:: I understand ...

Yeah, I should have noticed you were Canadian and didn't check ... My fault. I *know* Canadians are different from Americans.

No, does not matter all to much. Don’t worry about it. All I mean is that we are talking about the Netherlands, rather than North America and what North Americans perceive. It’s Holland that counts here, and not what people far away think of Holland.

?? But we're talking about an article you, as a person far away from Holland, wrote ...

Anyway, lets not continue this endlessly ... my comment was somewhat sloppy and I admit that.

[Schme]

The internet is no good.

As for me not being Dutch, yes. But what I'm saying here is, it doesn't matter what I think of Holland, what matters is weather the people of Holland do what is right (or at least what I feel is right), but more importantly, what is smart. At present, is heading for a very rocky waters.

[Nixit]

You can get plenty of reliable information from the internet.

[Jos Elkink]

As for me not being Dutch, yes. But what I'm saying here is, it doesn't matter what I think of Holland, what matters is weather the people of Holland do what is right (or at least what I feel is right), but more importantly, what is smart. At present, is heading for a very rocky waters.

It doesn't matter what you think, as long as all Dutch people do what you think is the right thing to do??

Sorry - I understand totally what you mean, but it just sounded funny

And as I said before, we agree largely on our interpretation of what is happening in the Netherlands, anyway ...

[Nick]

Schme was the starter of the debate, and happens to be Canadian, but I believe what he is intending for a debate on the subject, not his "canadian" perspective.

I'm Canadian, and disagree with Schme on this subject. I believe in the separation of church and state, especially when it comes to education. Children are impressionable and in many countries, people become Christian just because that's what the majority does.

I bet there are very few people, in proportion, who have chosen their religion because it suits their beliefs. Rather than having "found" their religion, which some can base their lives heavily on, many just become the religion they are by "default". I have nothing against Christianity as a practice, I just dislike the incredible number of "default Christians".

[Stan]

I think Nick's post is dead on. I'll take it even a step farther, though.

I have a problem with government intervening in religion all together, at least is the US.

The US Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Short and sweet. I think that is pretty clear. For congress to tell Americans that a Muslim can't wear a scarf or a Christian a crucifix whether in school or in their own house infringes on the civil rights of Americans given by the Constitution. There is no provision of "Except in the case of". Wearing a scarf or a crucifix is the excersize of religion.

[Nick]

But then who defines religion? Why can others be free to do what they want, because their religion is larger, than myself? Just because I refuse to categorize myself, my religious views are invalid?

[Stan]

I agree with you. You shouldn't be excluded. You should be free to excercise your religion. I was just using those two examples because they were brought up.

[Nick]

Okay well, alcohol is quite accepted in Christianity, which is reflected in the predominately Christian western society.

So, you can go home and drink a beer or a few after work, no big deal right?

So I go home and smoke a joint... I'm doing something worthy of ending up in jail?

[Pie]

Actually.. ime pretty shure you can't do that. I'm pretty shure that somwere in the bible it says that it is rong to drink. Or that you shouldn't drink until your drunk. Maby I'm rong.. who knows?

And... a joint?? If that means Marajuana (you thought i would mis the j, didn't ya, DIDN'T YA???!!?!???!?!?!?!??????!) i really don't know why they would band it... But think.. they CAN'T band beer. THEY'V ALLREDY TRYED THAT!!!

[formerly known as hf]

discussion on marijuana split to The (relative) dangers of marijuana

[Stan]

The Catholic faith has no problem with drinking. I myself partake in beer and wine. I think it would be better for me to not drink, but I do. That's one of those things that I need to work on. But a good cold beer is just damn good. A joint on the other hand, why? What's the point? It surely doesn't taste as good as a beer.