Poll - Communism: Good or evil?

[Darth Tiberius]

Omne thing I DO NOT agree on is sympathising with Israel. Israel is allways making the problem much worse by all the attacks. Palestine is also very much to blame. I bit more than Israel. The Road Map is a good idea but the Middle East situation is out of hand and I fear if Israel attack Syria it could have bad reprocutions on the world. Bad ones! I could go on forever but I'm tired and thirsty.

[rklenseth]

And I agree with a lot of what you said, Darth.

Anyways, I consider myself mostly in the middle but a little bit more to the right than the left. And I'm not Republican. I'm an independent and I don't affliated myself with a party unless a party was created with both political ends of the spectrum as well as the middle. So far I have no such party in the world. It's either just in around the middle or all the way to one side or all the way to the other side.

[Darth Tiberius]

Good for you man! Middle is the best! Glad to know there kis another person that agrees with that.

[Camino]

It might be free to the poor class and the wealthy class can afford it but imagine what will happen to the middle class. We will be screwed over.

How will the middle class be screwed over? The wealthy will go private because they can and will continue to do so and for once the poor will be able to get quality health care for free, for a country that's so amazing it certainly leaves the vast majority of it's population in appaling conditions.

I also find it funny that a lot of these Islamic countries are saying that we are fighting a holy war against them but when in fact there are more Muslims living in our country than there are in their country.

There aren't more Muslim's in the USA then the other Islamic countries, you have to remember that most Middle Eastern and West Asian countries view the vast majority of Western Muslim's as corrupted in some way, which in their logic makes their argument correct. If you understand what I mean.

You question the Palestinian suicide bombings well I can only quote Yassa Arafat, although my memory does fail me on the exact wording, asked why Palestinian terrorists plant bombs in Israeli marketplaces. "Because we don't have Phantom jets, like Israel used to bomb our refugees in Lebanon,"
EDIT: I got the proper quote which is close to what I thoguht it was but at least you'll see it as it is.

[rklenseth]

It might be free to the poor class and the wealthy class can afford it but imagine what will happen to the middle class. We will be screwed over.

How will the middle class be screwed over? The wealthy will go private because they can and will continue to do so and for once the poor will be able to get quality health care for free, for a country that's so amazing it certainly leaves the vast majority of it's population in appaling conditions.

I also find it funny that a lot of these Islamic countries are saying that we are fighting a holy war against them but when in fact there are more Muslims living in our country than there are in their country.

There aren't more Muslim's in the USA then the other Islamic countries, you have to remember that most Middle Eastern and West Asian countries view the vast majority of Western Muslim's as corrupted in some way, which in their logic makes their argument correct. If you understand what I mean.

You question the Palestinian suicide bombings well I can only quote Yassa Arafat, although my memory does fail me on the exact wording, "We send suicide bombers because we do not have Phantom jets or attack helicopters to kill people" my memory of it is really bad but that's roughly it maybe someone else can get the actual quote.

To answer your first question; according to the plans of nationalizing health care is there will be no private institutions. All health care will fall under the government and in order to fund it they will have to raise taxes. All the rich have to do is find loop holes and to get away from paying taxes while the poor either pay very little taxes if any at all. Most of the taxes in the US is paid by the middle class who don't have the loop holes and aren't poor enough not to pay taxes. So everyone will be getting the same health care benefits but the as far as payment wise it won't be fair at all. The middle class will end up paying for everyone elses health care. Plus, with there being no competition in the field of health care, prices will sky rocket which mean taxes will sky rocket which will slowly put the middle class into poverty and thus putting small businesses into bankruptcy. Plus, there are a whole lot of problems with nationlized and government health care in other countries that would become a problem here as well. The American government doesn't need another beaucracy anyways.


Onto the second part. The problem is that the Palestinians are attacking innocent civilians. I could sympathize with them if they were attacking military targets but they aren't. Plus, I would like to point out that 95% of Palestine falls under Jordan and Lebanon. Why aren't the Palestinians attacking them? Plus, the main reason Israel took over the 5% of Palestine that they have is for defense from the other Arabs countries that attacked them after Israel was declared a nation. Israel won that war and to prevent such an attack again took control of this very defensible land that surrounds Israel. The whole settlement argument is a bunch of bs. Those lands that the Israeli settlers are building their homes on are ancestrial Jewish lands that predate Christ. The lands were unlcaimed by the Palestinians and in fact they didn't want them until they found that the Israelis were successful at planting crops in those wasteland using ancient methods passed down from their ancestors.

According to a statstics I recently saw, there are more Muslims living the US than Afghanistan, Lebanon, Syria, Jordon, Palestinina territories, Egypt, and Saudi Arabis just barely tops over the US in an Islamic population. You have to remember that in these so called 'Islamic Countries' that there are other religions. Saudi Arabia and Iraq have a huge Christian population. Lebanon and Jordan have a huge Jewish population.

And Western Muslims how? These are immigrants coming from the Middle East or parents were from the Middle East. They come from among their people. These aren't Muslims from the Balkans or converted Westerners to Islam. These are Islamic people from these Islamic Countries. How are they all of a sudden Western Muslims? And I don't consider America a part of the Western World. That is Europe and should never be mixed up with America. A lot of America may be based on Western Ideals but America has become something different.

Yassir Arafat cannot be trusted. For years he has been promising peace with Israel while he secretly met with terrorist organizations including his own organization to plan a better stragety in destroying Israel. He was also linked to those North Korean ships that were shipping weapons to Palestinian terrorist organizations. For man that claims to be striving for peace and in fact secretly wages war for the whole destruction of a group of people, he has become rather untrustworthy.

All Israel wants is peace but how can they have when they are surrounded by countries that want they wiped off the face of the planet? They are being murdered and you are asking them to lay down their arms and throw up their hands for peace. That will only allow them to be murdered without a fight.

Sometimes I'm afraid the rest of the world has not learned from the lessons of World War II and what happened in the 1930's. The United Nations has just become another League of Nations. Don't believe me, prove where I am wrong. Show me an incident that has been resolved by the UN in the past decade. It might have gotten some stuff done back when it first started but it has only fallen since back into what the League of Nations was. How mant resolutions were there on Iraq and not once did they act upon them when Iraq was in clearly breaking them? 14 resolutions and they did nothing.

[rklenseth]

It might be free to the poor class and the wealthy class can afford it but imagine what will happen to the middle class. We will be screwed over.

How will the middle class be screwed over? The wealthy will go private because they can and will continue to do so and for once the poor will be able to get quality health care for free, for a country that's so amazing it certainly leaves the vast majority of it's population in appaling conditions.

I also find it funny that a lot of these Islamic countries are saying that we are fighting a holy war against them but when in fact there are more Muslims living in our country than there are in their country.

There aren't more Muslim's in the USA then the other Islamic countries, you have to remember that most Middle Eastern and West Asian countries view the vast majority of Western Muslim's as corrupted in some way, which in their logic makes their argument correct. If you understand what I mean.

You question the Palestinian suicide bombings well I can only quote Yassa Arafat, although my memory does fail me on the exact wording, "We send suicide bombers because we do not have Phantom jets or attack helicopters to kill people" my memory of it is really bad but that's roughly it maybe someone else can get the actual quote.

To answer your first question; according to the plans of nationalizing health care is there will be no private institutions. All health care will fall under the government and in order to fund it they will have to raise taxes. All the rich have to do is find loop holes and to get away from paying taxes while the poor either pay very little taxes if any at all. Most of the taxes in the US is paid by the middle class who don't have the loop holes and aren't poor enough not to pay taxes. So everyone will be getting the same health care benefits but the as far as payment wise it won't be fair at all. The middle class will end up paying for everyone elses health care. Plus, with there being no competition in the field of health care, prices will sky rocket which mean taxes will sky rocket which will slowly put the middle class into poverty and thus putting small businesses into bankruptcy. Plus, there are a whole lot of problems with nationalized and government health care in other countries that would become a problem here as well. The American government doesn't need another beaucracy anyways.


Onto the second part. The problem is that the Palestinians are attacking innocent civilians. I could sympathize with them if they were attacking military targets but they aren't. Plus, I would like to point out that 95% of Palestine falls under Jordan and Lebanon. Why aren't the Palestinians attacking them? Plus, the main reason Israel took over the 5% of Palestine that they have is for defense from the other Arabs countries that attacked them after Israel was declared a nation. Israel won that war and to prevent such an attack again took control of this very defensible lands that surround Israel. The whole settlement argument is a bunch of bs. Those lands that the Israeli settlers are building their homes on are ancestrial Jewish lands that predate Christ. The lands were unlcaimed by the Palestinians and in fact they didn't want them until they found that the Israelis were successful at planting crops in those wasteland using ancient methods passed down from their ancestors.

According to a statstics I recently saw, there are more Muslims living the US than Afghanistan, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestinina territories, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia just barely tops over the US in an Islamic population. You have to remember that in these so called 'Islamic Countries' that there are other religions. Saudi Arabia and Iraq have a huge Christian population. Lebanon and Jordan have a huge Jewish population.

And Western Muslims how? These are immigrants coming from the Middle East or children of parents who were from the Middle East. They come from among their people. These aren't Muslims from the Balkans or converted Westerners to Islam. These are Islamic people from these Islamic Countries. How are they all of a sudden Western Muslims? And I don't consider America a part of the Western World. That is Europe and should never be mixed up with America. A lot of America may be based on Western Ideals but America has become something different.

Yassir Arafat cannot be trusted. For years he has been promising peace with Israel while he secretly met with terrorist organizations including his own organization to plan a better stragety in destroying Israel. He was also linked to those North Korean ships that were shipping weapons to Palestinian terrorist organizations. For a man that claims to be striving for peace and in fact secretly wages war for the whole destruction of a group of people, he has become rather untrustworthy.

All Israel wants is peace but how can they have that when they are surrounded by countries that want them wiped off the face of the planet? They are being murdered and you are asking them to lay down their arms and throw up their hands for peace. That will only allow them to be murdered without a fight.

Sometimes I'm afraid the rest of the world has not learned from the lessons of World War II and what happened in the 1930's. The United Nations has just become another League of Nations. Don't believe me, prove where I am wrong. Show me an incident that has been resolved by the UN in the past decade other than humanitarian aide and wasb't because the US demanded it be done (the Balkans). It might have gotten some stuff done back when it first started but it has only fallen back into what the League of Nations was since. How mant resolutions were there on Iraq and not once did they act upon them when Iraq was clearly breaking them? 14 resolutions and they did nothing.

[Camino]

If the Israeli government is commited to peace as it says how come it feels the need to bulldoze the homes of people who have done nothing, use tanks to stop less than a dozen people gathering to commemorate the death of a journalist run over by an Israeli bulldozer, the journalist in question was wearing a bright flourecent orange jacket in broad daylight and had been seen by the driver because said driver had put a pistol out of a window and fired at her feet, the need to enclose the Gaza Strip and West Bank behind a wall which deliberatly enroaches on the only land available to Palastians that is fertile enough to support farmers when Israeli locals have offered to give up their land to allow their Palastian neighbours to keep their land?
Why the Israeli military refuses to accept blatent acts of murder by it's forces when there is eye witness statements and unquestionable video evidence. When a video shows a single Israeli armoured car sitting in a field shooting at people in flourecent jackets waving flashlights and calling out to the soldiers not to shoot and that they are western journalists, then have a military official say those journalists killed were caught in cross-fire I question how commited the government and the military are to a peaceful resolution.

Every time there are periods of peace in Israel the military there feels the need to launch an air strike on supposed terrorist targets, of course nobody is allowed to confirm who these targets are and no evidence is ever presented to anybody else but it is simply accepted, if that is commitment to peace then maybe I'm living in a fantasy world. The Israeli government developed it's own nuclear weapons program it so jealously guards the airspace over the location where it makes weapons grade uranium that the defences there shot down an Israeli airforce Mirage.

Is Israel part of the Axis of Evil? Of course not it is fighting a legitimate war against terrorism but Israel does as it pleases because of the protection from the American government, try and dispute my claim of American protection and I need only point you to the vast amounts of American military hardware it's country has and the fact that the American government has and always will be very ready to break International law when it feel's the need regardless of moral concerns and then turns on other countries for doing the same, most chiefly the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Treaty which America,Belgium,Turkey and Italy are all in breach of yet nobody does anything because your so content with your lot in life that you refuse to upset it in case you lose your precious life-style.
The great republic and its own voters don't even realise the power they actually have becuse their to content to let others tell them that government can't be done by just anybody, that it takes a special sort of person, if you belive that then you are nothing.

One must claim the right and the duty of imagining the future, instead of accepting it.

Mustafa Barghouthi, a Palestinian, describing an attack by Apache helicopters in the area in which he lives.
"We saw Apache helicopters circling in the sky above our heads. Then shooting a missile. The rockets fell just 200 metres from our house. All our windows were shuttered. I had a child in front of me, my daughter, who was 11 years old, shivering from fear. Worried, frightened to death. And I could do nothing to protect her. And you don't know whether in the second minute you or your daughter would be dead. That feeling of impotence is indescribable and I will never forget it."

[Meh]

You are missing the point that the only monopolies that can carry on for any length of time and not be beneficial are the ones that are protected by government.

I still do not belive I but that but I do not have the reasearch to counter.

[Meh]

I don't thik this one's been tried yet = publc ownership with private control of the means of production.

Modern day China. 51% public ownership maximum. Usally acting as a silent partner to the 49% public but with the ability to override at anytime.

[Darth Tiberius]

Hmmmmm...........*shakes head*

[swymir]

Well myself being about as big of a capitalist as there is, I really see no problem in communism. I feel if I was in a poorer country then communism would seem great to me as it would guarentee me work, but since I am not in one of those countries... Capitalism all the way. (Still I voted that it was good, just depends on where you are.)

One thing I do like about communism is probably the one thing everyone else loathes and that is the politics. At least with a dictator you get things done.

[Stan]

Uh...yeah sure...that's why all the communist countries in the world get so much done.

[Nixit]

Well... as far as I know... the 'attempts' at communism weren't really true communism, a dictatorship in Stalin's case.

[Stan]

Well, then perhaps the fact that is impossible to even practice "true communism" on a large scale should be a pretty good indicator that it stinks.

[Nixit]

Maybe. Yeah, I'd still go for a Democratic-Republic but that's still not perfect... but that's mostly our fault, not quite the actual system...