Communism - Good or evil?

[rklenseth]

Though that is the reality right now. The first few presidency there weren't any political parties but then people started figuring out it was better to get your ideas if you banded together in a strong group thus political parties came to be. The Democrats and Republicans were once one party until they split off.

Correction the first president was affiliated with no political parties and strongly warned against them,Do to his belief the english party system was totally and completely corrupt much as i see the american political system today.All later president`s were a member of one start-up party or another.
political parties were already very old instituions at this point.Also the idea of th modern democratic and republican parties didn`t come into being until the 1960`s for the former and the late/early 19th century for the latter.That`s way off the time period in question.They have obviously had some minor shifts in policies over time,just another control measure to keep people wondering,What do they stand for again? Oh well I like his name or this is who my parents voted for(yes I`ve seen people actually vote like this)

The presidency of Adams and Jefferson were affiliated with no parties. Jefferson did after his presidency join and support a party.

[rklenseth]

On Facism the reason why it is hard to tell from communism is that facism was about nationalism. Everyone is so nationalistic now that this part of facism is often forgotten. Leninist Communism was making an anti-state which for all intensive purposes just became a large state opposed to all the other non-communist states and in effect was no different.

Both were the removal of local control and culture to support the larger state's control and culture. The USA continues to become more federailized. Need I metion the EU super state? And while China may be doing many experiments with it's goverment it will still be China in the end.

Who did what is evil has little meaning in the context of things are all coming together more and more and some people fear who will have control in such a situtuation. Companies as is Quil?

Nationalism is yet to be expressed by the chracters widely in the game there is widespread "locationism". For one the larger states are named after thier capital locatons which undermines nationalistic tendencies.

Yes, you are right that facism uses nationalism, David.

I think the Alexian Empire could be considered Nationalistic and made Siom too.

[JherodJ]

Though that is the reality right now. The first few presidency there weren't any political parties but then people started figuring out it was better to get your ideas if you banded together in a strong group thus political parties came to be. The Democrats and Republicans were once one party until they split off.


I was under the impression adams was sympathetic to federalism,While jefferson had Ideals more anti-federalism I may be wrong.

Correction the first president was affiliated with no political parties and strongly warned against them,Do to his belief the english party system was totally and completely corrupt much as i see the american political system today.All later president`s were a member of one start-up party or another.
political parties were already very old instituions at this point.Also the idea of th modern democratic and republican parties didn`t come into being until the 1960`s for the former and the late/early 19th century for the latter.That`s way off the time period in question.They have obviously had some minor shifts in policies over time,just another control measure to keep people wondering,What do they stand for again? Oh well I like his name or this is who my parents voted for(yes I`ve seen people actually vote like this)

The presidency of Adams and Jefferson were affiliated with no parties. Jefferson did after his presidency join and support a party.

[rklenseth]

There is one problem with your nuclear holocaust scenario, JherodJ. Those 1 out 10 people that survive might not agree with your ideals or might even use your ideals only so that they can gain power. Plus there is no guarantee that you will live either.

I also don't agree with you on what you think America is and how Americans are. I think Americans care a lot and aren't just stupid. And being Moderate doesn't mean you flip-flop. It means you see the good ideas from both sides of the political spectrum and choose to support which ones you want. Usually, Moderates are very open minded and are willing to hear out both sides. And with a balance between Liberalism and Conservatism in America, unlike so many other countries, we get the best of both ideals. America, in the past, found out that when one ideal gains full power then there is much abuse and corruption because there is no other ideal to counter and keep the other ideal on its toes.

I would also like to point out that force virtue is not virtue at all but slavery.

Here, here, Darth Tiberius, for the American Dream. I think you and I would agree on much from what I have read.

[JherodJ]

Yes it could be described as slavery,but slaveryto the ideals of love compassion and respect.
but freedom is merely an illusion and were ALL slaves to the ALmighty dollar,which would you prefer to serve? and more importantly who would your creator prefer you to serve?

[JherodJ]

Freedom is the greatest illusion ever perpertrated on the people of earth.
As was said in the most recent matrix movie there is no freedom only purpose.

And about your remarks to my haulocaust scenario I believ one of the WMD`s will be used by one or more of the facsist states. (to clarify it seems people keep implying I want this to happen or something,I just feel its already in motion and unstoppable)Your right I very likely wont survive and again your right human nature allows the possibilty for another tyranny,but Im hoping when 80% of earth has went through mass extinction by our own hands we will have wised up and see the benifits of the system I`ve suggested.

[Darth Tiberius]

OK. I'll try and make this short and sweet (sorry for any spelling mistakes).

Communism is wrong on many fronts. First of all, communsim relies on its principles as a utopian society. This is where everyone gets along and is equal where greed and corruption don't exist. This cannot happen! Greed and corruption are in all of us. We cannot just ignore it. That is why I believe that communism is a very naive way of living. It is absolutely absurd since it is also a way of brainwashing people while the government exacts control on everything.

Communism says the state should be all powerful. Look at the countries which have had commuinism. They are all stuggling. Russia, Cuba and North Korea are prime examples. Communism in itself would be an exellant theory. If this was a perfect world. But this is not a perfect world. It never will be. Whoever believes in utopia is living in a large fantasy world. People too often use communism for their own selfish gains. It is a pity.

I do admit that America and the other capitalist nations have thekir own faults. 5% control 80% of the nation's wealth. That si very terrible but communism opens the door much wider for people like Stallin to step in. He took all the nations wealth and spent it on military equipment. Instead on investing in public services he squandered it. I am an American/Finnish person. I love the system where people are alowed to be all they can be as long as they work for it. That is the basis behind the American dream. Unfortuntely, nowadays people will, take it so that big business put a stranglehold on smaller people looking to make it in the business world. That is unfortunate. But communism says that you cannot be what you could be potentially. Commusinsm takes away so many personal liberaties and for what? I will now go through what was wrong with the two major people behiond communism. Marx and Lennin.

Marx himself was a hypocrite! There is evidence to show that Marx overindulged all his life on everything. And he would tell people to donate to the state. That is very bad of him. If he is to say that than at least he should of followed his own ideals. Marx also was VERY hostile towards religion. He called it an opium for the people. In his ramblings he said that chburhces and places of worship should be closed down since it isn't a business and efficeint to the state and the people. He said it was a waste of time and resources so he encouraged countries which were taken by his crap to enforce crippling taxes on the churches. That is why most of them closed down. Even if you are not religious you must see that doing that is very wrong. Marx kin my books was allmost as bad as Stallin.

Lennin was even worse. He said that the state was to be expanding into many areas. He said in order to expand as a world, other nations should be communist as well. He authorised many attacks into neighbouring countries like Georgia and Finland (my motherland). Luckily most of them including Finland maintained their independance but many were conquered. Lennin was bloodthirsty and believed in sometime to have no trial for proven murderers. He had hangings. Basically what he believed was monstrous.

Economically, communism works. IN THE SHORT RUN!!! But in the long run communism fails miserably. I know. I do economics and will be taking it much further in terms of degree level. Communism as well as being a form of control is also a form of again to enforce an elite group within the government by using the resources and capital not in efficent terms by not investing htem in the market. In that way technnologically the marketed products fall back behind modern standards.

Overall I think that we should have acentral based market system in the middle of the political spectrum. Communism is wrong just like any extreme. Nazism was an extreme. Communism isn't seen as evil since it is wrapped up in a nice package with absolutely no content. It brainwashes impresionable youth into believing the west is all wrong and that the west is evil. It create drones lof mindless zombies to go around and say that "America is evil". When America is not. America is a wonderful country. America is definately not perfect however. I have not much time. I had more to say but I accidentally pushed the delete page button instead of another button so most of my other comments were lost. I can't remember them. A few were very insightful and philosophical. I anticipate any reply. I'll challenge any critisizms systematically. Just pose any questions or comments you have.

[new.vogue.nightmare]

I'm not a slave to the dollar...Maybe a slave to unemployment, or a slave to cantr or something... me=poor and i dun care ^___^

[JherodJ]

I'm not a slave to the dollar...Maybe a slave to unemployment, or a slave to cantr or something... me=poor and i dun care ^___^

Thats my point:) there is no freedom were all slaves to something,most of us money some of us power,others sex,still others drugs and a few of us Cantr;) Freedom is an illusion to keep us content and the top wealthiest 1% ,staying that way.We do however,have the freedom to a certain extent,to choose our bondage.So long as we remain bound,we`re under reasonable control.The one thing that all humans strive for.

[Darth Tiberius]

We are a slave to our bodily and immediate desire. That's what Plato said. It still holds true. Unfortuntely he thaen went on to say that a sort of totalarianist government could fix that. That is unfortunately where Marx got some of his ideas from. Read up on Plato if you have no c,lue what i'm talking about. Many modern philosophers see Marx as extremely naive.

Basically, we are a slave to the system. We live to survive and improve our standings. That is the humna goal generally. This goal is changed by the conditions the person was brought up in, the area where you live, religion, or main influences.

I strongly urge everyone to read Plato's "Analogy of the Cave" theory. It is still held today by most as being fact. By any standards.

[Meh]

As far as the end of the world scenario...

By the end of this century one of multi-national arig businesses will develop a basically indestructable type of wheat. Drought resistanant. Cold resistanant. Pest resistanant. Quick growing.

This will generally be hearalded as solving the problem of feeding the world.

The problem is before people realize it it would have been planted in just about every arigcultural area. The problem will come when it starts to encroach on the road systems. Solutions will be provided to deal with this however even the genitically engineered agents will fall short as the plant will be so widespread it will just go into remission and the small portion that is resitant to the agent will come back stronger.

The roads will be overrun. This will cause even more reliance on the internet which over the course of the centry helped combine the world into a common state and supressed nationalism. People will be more likely to be loyal to people half way across the globe with similar ideals than someone within thier own horizon.

Food will be plentiful as in Cantr.
People will have little sense of physical community and more a sense of thier own subgroups' global community as in Cantr.
Thus the game is a simulation of what is to come.



Did you really read all of that?

[west]

that's hot
i'm up for that world

[Darth Tiberius]

hmmmmm........

[Meh]

As far as the end of the world scenario...

By the end of this century one of multi-national arig businesses will develop a basically indestructable type of wheat. Drought resistanant. Cold resistanant. Pest resistanant. Quick growing.

This will generally be hearalded as solving the problem of feeding the world.

The problem is before people realize it it would have been planted in just about every arigcultural area. The problem will come when it starts to encroach on the road systems. Solutions will be provided to deal with this however even the genitically engineered agents will fall short as the plant will be so widespread it will just go into remission and the small portion that is resitant to the agent will come back stronger.

The roads will be overrun. This will cause even more reliance on the internet which over the course of the centry helped combine the world into a common state and supressed nationalism. People will be more likely to be loyal to people half way across the globe with similar ideals than someone within thier own horizon.

Food will be plentiful as in Cantr.
People will have little sense of physical community and more a sense of thier own subgroups' global community as in Cantr.
Thus the game is a simulation of what is to come.



Did you really read all of that?

My bad. Seems like it may be soy that ends the current version of civilization not wheat.

Genetically Modified Crops Survive Weed-Whacking Herbicide

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articl ... anID=sa003

[Pie]

Communism itself isn't a bad thing. It's a verry good idea when dealing with developing countries. The fact that it's government is a despotism, wile its econimy is a comunism is the bad part. If you had a democratic comunism for a developing counry, it would just be perfect, until the people get richer and can actually support themselves. after that, then the government sells all of its shares in the companies it owns, and it will be set up verry well.

My opinion and belief.

Also, we aren't a slave to our desires. The proof of this is that so many people have denied their desires, like drug usage, and... stuff.

My other opinion.

I'm done.