ACLU (Dragon Slayer's Rant)

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mortaine
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Re: ACLU (Dragon Slayer's Rant)

Postby mortaine » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:57 pm

Dragonslayer4ever wrote:Ok I am sure some of you know who I am talking about. You know those %$%(^%$%^%$)%%^$^%$%((%$*%$$^(%%$#%$

that try to ruin america in the name of making it better.

I have been sitting here watching Fox News alot and some of this stuff is repulsive.
...........


I had to stop right there, because I knew what was coming, even without having to read it.

Fox News is the country's least objective major news source. It is full of slant, all of it towards the Neo-Conservatist viewpoint. Fox is guilty of the most flagrant violations of journalistic ethics, including massive conflicts of interests that are never disclosed.

Do not base your opinions of anything on what Fox News has to say. It's like the Drudge Report-- a mouthpiece for an administration that has lied to America for the last five years.

I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU, which, among other things, fights for individual rights, even if the individual in question is a reprehensible person. Thus, the ACLU does things I would never personally do, like take issue with a court ruling that allowed the presence of encryption software on a man's computer as evidence of intent to commit a crime (the man was convicted, based on other evidence, of child pornography). The ACLU takes on the really hard stuff as well as the easy-- they defend the rights of librarians to not disclose patron's borrowing records, as well at the right of the KKK to march on Washington, D.C. I do not agree with everything the ACLU does, but I agree with their overriding directive: to defend the rights guaranteed in the United States Constitution and constantly threatened by political factions.

Bring me sources that are not backed by Fox News and we'll talk about the so-called attack on Christianity. For every attack on Christianity you bring, I can bring an attack on non-Christians, and I guarantee you, the attacks on non-Christians are far worse and longer lasting.

And if you think prayer in schools is harmless, you have never been an atheist in a small town. My mother cannot speak about her beliefs for fear of being ostracized and having her business boycotted. Her husband cannot speak about his heritage (Jewish) for fear of being physically assaulted. Heck, my ex-brother-in-law was all set to *kill* my husband when he thought my brother had brought him as his wedding date, and that wasn't even as important as worship of divinity.

The Christian culture that believes prayer in schools is a good idea does not acknowledge or care about those who do not pray, or those for whom prayer would expose them in their community and put them at risk. These folks naively seem to believe that peer pressure simply doesn't exist, that students won't pressure a fellow student into praying with "the group" or that they won't ostractize or even bully the student who pulls out a prayer mat to face Mecca, proving themselves different in a culture (that of any public jr. high or high school) of conformity.
--
mortaine.
rklenseth
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Postby rklenseth » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:37 pm

That the problem with school and people in general. They're all about the clics. If they weren't ostracized, as you put it, for their religion then it would be for the way they dress, who their friends are, who their parents are, for what they do, etc.... That is just the way of young people and they get that from their parents.

Sometimes the only thing you can do is stand up for your beliefs. Stand for what you believe is right and against what you believe is wrong. In the end who the hell should you care what the other people think. If they attack you, kill them right on back. If they wish to make you something that you are not then put your foot down and say this is who I am and that ain't changing unless I say otherwise.

Not everyone in this world has an open mind. Very few people do even though many claim it. You're very unlikely going to change their ways. So the best thing to do is just live your life. As long as you're not harming anyone most of the time people stay out of your way but if they get in your way then move them.

Telling someone that they can't pray in school is harming their right of worship and expression. So should we harm another's rights because we may fear that that might harm that of another's. Rather than going that route shouldn't we teach our young that it is better to be individuals who choose their beliefs, their rights and wrongs, and respect that of others. I think that is what we're missing in school. Instead they teach that everyone should conform to the group and work as a team.

That is one reason why I like the Boy Scouts (even though they have their faults; who doesn't?). They teach people to be individuals that work together. Each person has his strengths and weaknesses. And each of those things helps or hurts the group in one way or another.
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Postby Schme » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:03 pm

You've pretty well covered it. I re-assert my claim that Fox News is in fact a piece of garbage, as far as free press goes.
"One death is a tragedy, a million is just statistics."
Joseph Stalin
rklenseth
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Postby rklenseth » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:34 pm

Dee wrote:
Serenity wrote:hmmm....that whole thing about Jesus returning and fighting sounds a lot like Revelations with Jesus returning and fighting the Anti-Christ.

I never knew Muslims had that prophecy.

Very interesting....


Is the Anti-Christ the man who is going to try and make us believe that he is God and if we don't believe in him he would kill or harm us? If that is him, then yes, that's what we believe in, Jesus will be returning to fight the Anti-Christ.


Pretty much, the Anti-Christ will be the false Messiah. He will come and make everyone believe he is good and stuff. But then he will turn on humanity. And in turn make them turn away from God.

Here is a little outlined tidbit of what the Anti-Christ is suppose to be... Don't pay any attention to the commentary though....

http://www.raptureready.com/resource/ac46.html
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Postby rklenseth » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:40 pm

schme wrote:You've pretty well covered it. I re-assert my claim that Fox News is in fact a piece of garbage, as far as free press goes.


One person's propaganda is another's truth. :wink:
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Postby rklenseth » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:46 pm

Now on the subject of Anti-Christs;

Nostradamus predicted three would come. Many people already believe that two already came. Napoleon Bonaparte in the 18th Century and Adolf Hitler in the 19th Century. The third one, the worse and the last, is yet to come.

From Nostradaus' writings on the third Anti-Christ;

I p189 (cIII-34)

The Antichrist will spend many years working silently behind the
scenes to consolodate his power, and make his appearance onto the
international arena once the structure is in place. He will have
planned carefully and the countries he goes against will be
unprepared for his golden-tongued treachery.

I p 190 (cVIII-77)

The Antichrist is the power behind the scenes, pulling the strings,
and has not yet made his move to reveal himself. He is like a spider
waiting for his time, taking advantage of the world situation to make
his move.


I p 180

When his time comes he will take advantage of the political situation
in a country to rise to power. It will not matter that he is not a
native of the country. He will take advantage of loopholes and
contrive positions. He may aggressively and audaciously seize a
position in a military organization after his uncle dies, for
example.

I p 234 (cI-34)

The Antichrist will foment rebellions within the countries he's aiming
to take over. He will allow the various political splinter groups to
believe he supports their cause, when he is actually playing them
against each other. The countries will turn in on themselves,
weakening them for his outside conquest.

I p 219 (cII-23)

The Antichrist will take over Iran by using a human decoy to trick the
Ayatollah in power. This will involve the "yes men" and sycophants of
the Ayatollah's court. The Antichrist will first drive away internal
supporters of the Ayatollah by starting a civil war. Then he will put
forth a man as a leader, a man for Iranians loyal to the Ayatollah to
concentrate their hate on. The man will be assassinated while Iran is
being taken over, and his opponents will think they have foiled the
overthrow of power by assassinating him. But they will find out later
he was merely a decoy and that they played into the plans of the
Antichrist.

I p 211 (cII-81)

The Antichrist will initially obtain power in his own sphere, Asia,
and the Middle East. As he grows out of this arena, i.e. into Europe,
the next step will be into the Mediterranean, approaching from the
south, his area of strength. Because of his Middle Eastern heritage
he will have already united North Africans, who are sympathetic to his
cultural background, with his Asian and Middle Eastern conglomerate.


b. Antichrists' unified monetary system
===

I p 219 (cI-40)

The Antichrist will start uniting the monetary systems of his region
to help merge them into a single political entity. His ambition to
rule the world will be advanced by instituting a single currency with
others going defunct. There will be a resistance to this,
particularly by a popular, charismatic leader from Egypt, demanding
the edict and law be withdrawn that requires the Arab nations give up
their currencies and be submissive to the unified political
conglomerate.


c. Antichrist's seizure of Asia
===


I p 189 (cIV-50)

The Antichrist will take over Asia by appointing subcommanders to rule
vast tracts of land for him. But their ties to him will be masked and
the world will not realize they are merely puppets until a succession
of them are installed in the place of predecessors. At first the U.S.
will not interfere because it is thought the government was freely
chosen by the people, but only later realize the leaders were forced
on the populace as mouthpieces and tools for the Antichrist.

I p 188 (cIII-95)

Russia will be his first major Asian
conquest and he will do it not through force but through guile and
his compelling persuasiveness. He will trick the Russians to come
under his power and there will be nothing they can do about it. They
will think they are acting in their own best interests. The Middle
East will be mostly under his control before he turns to Russia. Then
he turns to China and the rest of the Asian continent, to build a
position to take over the entire world. He will not trick the Chinese
but will some other method.


d. Antichrist's cultural eradication & European campaign
===

I p194 (cII-15)

When the second pope is assassinated, the Antichrist will begin his
European campaign. The Prime Minister of Britain and the U.S.
President will go into consultation over the matter. They will meet
at sea like Churchill and Roosevelt did for better security and
secrecy of the meetings.


I p 211 (cII-81)

During the use of his weapons and the ravages of war, one of the
devastatingly effective plans of attack by the Antichrist is to
threaten the destruction of the victim's cultural centers, not so
much physical destruction of the populace. Because the population
attributes great value to places and artifacts with large historical
and cultural significance, the terrorist-extortionist technique will
be very powerful in striking fear into his foe and "bringing them to
their knees".

To put Europe into an initial shock, he will begin to smash and
destroy the city of Rome to rubble via aerial bombing raids. It will
be destroyed to such an extent that the "seven hills of Rome" will be
levelled. Rome will be be so annhilated as to be threatened by an
encroachment from the sea, destroying all that is left.

He will also threaten the cultural centers of Greece and the great
Greek cultural centers of learning, including Athens. Most cultural
treasures and major metropolitan centers of the entire peninsula
will be destroyed. The world leaders will be momentarily shocked and
paralyzed by his barbarity. In the presense of their indeciveness and
absence of their action he will make great strides in taking over
territory and governments. The Antichrist will continually use
shocking and unprecedented moves like these to advance his domination
throughout the entire WWWIII.

The eradication of cultural treasures also fits in with the
Antichrist's ulterior motive of wiping out the established culture to
supplant it with his own, like the Moors attempted when they invaded
Spain, except in his case on the level of an entire continent.

I. p226 (cII-84)

Drought and weather changes will take place during the time of
troubles. The Antichrist will take over Italy and Greece by
destroying the cultural centers to devastate morale of the subjugated
citizens.


e. Antichrist's ravage of the Catholic Church
===

I p214 (cV-43)

In addition to the cultural destruction of European cultural centers,
the Antichrist will ransack the Vatican library with the intent of
ultimately destroying it. He will do this to undermine the authority
of the Vatican and break up the power fragments that remain. One way
he will do this is by revealing important, controversial material
hidden in the Vatican library that the Catholic church will be seen
to have suppressed because of the threat to its authority. This will
cause major schisms in the church as priests and students turn
against each other in their theories and interpretations of the new
material. The confusion and chaos will remove the Catholic church as
an obstacle to the Antichrist's plans.

I p215 (cI-62)

The ransacking of the Vatican library by the Antichrist will bring to
light and open to the world information, facts, and knowledge that
had been suppressed for several centuries. Even though he uses
violence, the Antichrist will actually be burning off his karma
because of the positive effects of the release, starting a new cycle,
higher cycle of his karma.

I p216 (cII-12)

The people involved with the Catholic church, particularly the
priests, will cling to the old order even though it is not viable and
dead as far as working within the reality of the changed times. The
Antichrist and the last pope will be "robbing blind" the Church. The
Antichrist will desecrate and raid the Vatican library and cart away
the treasures of the church to help fund his armies. The Catholic
church will become totally superfluous, and contribute to its own
demise.


f. Antichrist's invasion of Turkey
===

I p 209 (cV-25)

When the Catholic Church in Rome is finally destroyed in a devastating
but mysterious "Act of Nature", people will be distracted from
noticing the more important event of the time, the Antichrist
invading Turkey.

I p 222 (cII-29,V-54)

After the destruction in Italy wrought by the Antichrist, he will go
over the mountains through France via airplane. He will attack Europe
from the south because he will have the solid backing of the Islamic
world and will already have bloodily subjugated North Africa and the
Middle east. He will set up regional headquarters in Turkey, and
other outposts, to rule and advance further conquests.


g. Switzerland alarmed by Antichrist's Nazism in Germany
===

I p 220 (cI-61)

While the Antichrist is in the process of taking over Europe, he will
back the Nazi party in Germany. The current popularity of Nazism
among the youth of Germany will lay the groundwork for this.
Eventually Switzerland will become alarmed and break its
centuries-old tradition of neutrality, taking the side against the
Antichrist and actively fighting.

I. p 229 (cII-39)

Infiltrators, spies, and traitors in Germany, France, Spain, and Italy
will be secretly working for the Antichrist's cause of taking over
Europe. The education establishment will be abandoned because it is
unsupportable during wartime.


h. International (non)reaction to the Antichrist
===

I p 220 (cII-96)

Diplomatic foul-ups in other countries will permit the Antichrist to
attain greater power. In the beginning, when he does not have a broad
base of power but is building on it, those in power elsewhere who can
do something about it will hesitate until it is too late. Even though
people realize he wields great power "from the dark side", his
demonic hatred and magnetism will enhance the fatal attraction. He
will advance his campaign by invading and conquering neighboring
countries, particularly because of the political turmoil and
instability of the realm. Eventually he will subdue the entire Asian
continent under his rule. The Antichrist will be in this period of
increasing his power during the visit of the comet visible from the
Northern hemisphere in about 1997.

I p 225 (cI-37)

The U.S. will vacillate in dissension during the conquests of the
Antichrist. Its power, influence, and "can do" capabilities will
have diminished in the international arena at the time. The populace
will argue over involvement vs. noninvolvement. Shipping will be very
dangerous because of submarine warfare practiced by the Antichrist.
Enemy soldiers in foreign ports will foul up sea-based commerce. Many
decisive battles in his wars will involve seaports. Many people will
die far away from home in the war.

I p 224 (cIII-7)

The various weaker countries threatened by the Antichrist's
imperialism will call on stronger ones for help, like the U.S. which
will initially be neutral and uncommitted. The Antichrist will be
attempting to take over part of the world using aerial warfare. In
one battle in the night a squadron of unmarked planes will rebuff his
advance, sent secretly by the U.S.

I p213 (cV-86)

Responsive, proactive countermeasures could have prevented the
destruction caused by the Antichrist but the political and diplomatic
strife among the Western powers will have failed to have "nipped the
situation in the bud". England and the U.S. will have enough military
power to confront the Antichrist but because of lack of consensus
neither will act quickly. A newly established alliance between the
two is only in its infancy at the time, and the powers have not
established the authority of overall decision-making in time. Also, a
breakdown in communications and transportation will cause important
political analysts to be cut off from advising the leaders. Meanwhile
the Antichrist will be making conquests in leaps and bounds.
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Dee
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Postby Dee » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:47 pm

42. He will stand against the Prince of princes - Daniel 8:25


Is that Al-Mahdi Al-Montazar? I guess it's who he is.

Yes, the Anti-Christ is whom I was talking about.

I don't know why, but I've got a feeling that he'll be coming from China :shock:
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Postby mortaine » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:54 pm

*eyeroll*

I am not at all surprise that a conversation started in response to what Fox News has "reported" has turned to Nostradamus and his end-of-the-world "prophecies."

I seriously hope that those of you who are so concerned about the end of the world will go forth and check out how the apocalyptic movement in the neo-cons is shaping public policy. Really, it's not hard-- nearly every major neo-con has made some comment about the world coming to an end.

Frankly, I don't want my world to be run by people who don't think it has a future.
--

mortaine.
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Dee
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Postby Dee » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:59 pm

In our relegion, there are major signs and minor signs to the end of the world. The major signs won't be coming untill all the minor signs have finally happened.. And guess what, they already have happened.. All of them.. One of the major signs is the occurence of Anti-Christ.


People have been saying that the world has come to an end since the days of Prophet Muhammed... And that was a loooooooooooong time ago.... No one really knows when the world's going to end... So, just keep on living, lol!
Schme
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Postby Schme » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:01 pm

President George W. Bush has actually made a contingency plan for what America should do in case that he and his cabinet are swept up in the rapture and brought directly to heaven.

Makes one wonder.
"One death is a tragedy, a million is just statistics."

Joseph Stalin
rklenseth
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Postby rklenseth » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:05 pm

If you read Nostradamus' prophecies, you would know that people are victorious over the third Anti-Christ eventually and that a new era of humanity will begin and that is where Nostradamus ends his writings.

But if you have ever read about the first two anti-christs that he predicted you will be very scared at how close his predictions are to what actually happened with the rise and falls of Napoleon and Hitler. And also for the fact that he predicted that the third anti-christ would come from the Middle East and look at the turmoil happening in those parts of the world since the end of World War II.

But whether he is Middle Eastern or not is unknown. Nostradamus said he will be a foreigner of the Middle Eastern nation that he will make his rise to power in. That leaves it pretty open as to who it might be and where that person will come from.
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Dee
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Postby Dee » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:09 pm

http://www.muslimamerica.net/mp/muqatta.htm

Great webpage.. It explains everything, has all the signs, the major and the minor... And it's very accurate as well...

So, if you're interested, read it.
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Postby rklenseth » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:12 pm

Here are some predictions made by Nostradamus as to the rise of Hitler; information in [] is not of Nostradamus' writings but of someone giving interpretation to those writings.

Were the predictions of Nostradamus simply guesswork as some have surmised or was he truly a the greatest prophet the world has ever known? In his predictions of Hitler's rise Nostradamus wrote (notations italicized):

In the most easterly region of western Europe, a child will be born to poor parents [Hitler's parents were indeed poor, born in Austro-Bavarians frontier]. He will seduce great crowds wit his oratory and will [commonly characterized as the greatest orator in history] make much more noise about the eastern power - USSR [Hitler's greatest adversary]. A new sect of philosophers despising death, gold, honors and wealth will be born on the German borders and those who follow them will have support and audience [Hitler's founding party held these very beliefs and sought to deliver the German people from their sorrows]. Under the saintly appearance of delivering people from servitude he will himself usurp the people's power and the town. He will wreak the worst by trickery with the aid of a new republic, using as text in the struggle the false ideas of the first part of his book [Mein Kampf, Volume 1]. Many will die before the Phoenix dies [millions of Jews perished]. After fifty-five years ten months he will find his last home, when the years 1915, 1921, and 1939 have passed [Hitler born April 1889, died March 1945 at 55 years 10 months] in 1945. In 1915 he will succumb to illness [as a Corporal he was twice wounded in 1915], in 1921 he will have an armed force dangerous to his life [1921, the most successful year of Hitler's new party]; 1939 will be subject to a rain of fire [Hitler's siege began in 1934 and ended in 1945]. The new Nero will hurl into three ovens [Auschwitz, Dachau, and Birkenau where over 11 million Jews perished] young people to burn them alive. Happy they who are far from such acts. Three of his blood Germans will spy on him to kill him [Goerdeler, Leipzig, and General Beck attempted a assassination by bomb that failed]. The new German empire will be in desolation and undergo changed because of the North [USSR, key in the defeat of Germany]. There will be great numbers of condemned person when the heads of state are reconciled [Nuremberg Trials]. But one of them will make sure any difficulties that those who waged war together will not be allies [USSR and USA, allies in wars, starkest enemies in the end].
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Postby rklenseth » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:16 pm

Dee wrote:http://www.muslimamerica.net/mp/muqatta.htm

Great webpage.. It explains everything, has all the signs, the major and the minor... And it's very accurate as well...

So, if you're interested, read it.


Thanks!
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mortaine
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Postby mortaine » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:28 pm

Oh, my god. And neocons wonder why the rest of us call them stupid.

Look, I don't want to invalidate anyone's religion here, but seriously? SERIOUSLY? How dumb do you have to be to think that what some fruitcake fortune-teller said five hundred years ago could possibly predict what's happening in this century?

At the best, foresight is a function of a highly developed sense of pattern-recognition. In which case, Nostradamus could have been talking about Hitler, but he could also have been talking about Machiavelli or a third-rate Russian prince-- it is only the self-centeredness of the twentieth century mindset that causes people to assume that the most exciting part of his predictions must be happening right now.

If you want to believe Nostradamus was divinely inspired, and that his fortune-tellings are the Word of God, then fine. I can't argue with blind, unintelligible faith, but I can point out that for the majority of the world, he's a fruitcake. Motivated, perhaps, but no saint.
--

mortaine.

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