Pirog vs. The Industriallist (Interference welcome)

[Pirog]

Chrissy>

Look, this isn't about me disliking The Indistrialist as a person

[Chrissy]

Pirog>

Look, I was just messing around. .

Half of what I write is for my own amusement. There is some truth to it though. You know I'm right.

C.

[The Industriallist]

Ok, I'm back at last...

I would say the ambition to have "a nice peaceful life" is shared by most normal citizens.

People with only that ambition are worthless in Cantr. There. I said it.
IRL, people like that can be interesting, because it can be difficult to do. In Cantr, you just have to plug yourself into a carrot supply and you've got your goal in life achieved until you roll over and die or get trampled. All you'll ever contribute is a food surplus, a body, and some weakly motivated chatter.

There can be exceptions...if your character has some interesting traits to cope with but no ambitions, they're only semi-worthless. If events transform the character to action on the basis of that underlying drive, somehow, that's not worthless.

I don't want everyone to be a hero. I don't want everyone to have the same kind of ambition. But if you don't aim any higher than human cattle status, I'd be just as happy without you...and I would save burial time.

- Kings will have no one to buy/tax from.
- Industrialists will have no one to supply materials.

Kings don't tax, as far as I've ever seen. Manufacturers and resource collectors rarely trade, even when it's obviously to their interests. Dictators get nothing from the majority of their citizens at all.

That's why I think Cantr needs more people with capitalistic ambitions...or just greed of whatever (thinking) form.

I get the feeling that his personal, rather capitalistic, views seems to get in the way of that, yes...

All my characters aim up, it's true (almost. One is only starting to aim up now, after reaching just about the pinnacle of worldly power by total accident.). But then, everyone aims up their predicted perceived value function gradient, by definition of same. Material wealth is secondary to at least half (maybe more) of my characters, but naturally they all consider it...material wealth is useful for acheiving most other types of goal.

That's something like my RL outlook too. I think I've got some goals. Wealth is a secondary but real consideration because it can be used to advance all of them.

[Nick]

But remember, Industrialist;
A shepherd needs sheep.

[The Industriallist]

Even sheep have ambition...very limited, yes. But rather real. That's how you control them.

Also, in the happy pastoral view the shepherd is herding the sheep for the sheep's benefit...

[Pirog]

The Industriallist>

Well, at least my theory proved to be true

I don't see the ambition to remain safe, well fed and even well clothed, finding a wife/husband and settle down in a little house and live happy ever after is a worthless cause for example.
IRL I think people with that motivation more often find happiness then the corporate leaders that devotes their entire life to gain as much money as possible without really ever having the time to enjoy their wealth...

[kroner]

what he's saying is that RL that is a more worthy goal because just living a comfortable life and finding someone you'll be happy with is not so easy to achieve. it muct be actively persued. it's something for people to work towards.
a cantr character can achieve the goal of living "comfortably" (enough food basically) almost completely passively. a character with no goals that require effort is indeed boring and typically pointless.

[Pirog]

But I don't think anyone has said that merely having enough food to survive is the only motivation for such people...

[Psycho Pixie]

Ok, I'm back at last...

I would say the ambition to have "a nice peaceful life" is shared by most normal citizens.

People with only that ambition are worthless in Cantr. There. I said it.
IRL, people like that can be interesting, because it can be difficult to do. In Cantr, you just have to plug yourself into a carrot supply and you've got your goal in life achieved until you roll over and die or get trampled. All you'll ever contribute is a food surplus, a body, and some weakly motivated chatter.

hehe..... you would never guess it but my ambition in my real life IS to have a "nice peaceful life" without DRAMA without constant vet bills, without over time without over due electric bills....

just lots of friends and alot of good se... um, time with my boyfriend.

but!!! Cantr, I always liked to stir things up. it is how I played. gotta be creative you know?

[social moth]

Jos, you see what you've done!

*shakes fist*

You see what those horrible red bars have done to Cantr. They've turned brother against brother...and the children! Oh, won't somebody think of the children!

[Riddrev]

But we can't think of the children as they have yet to be implemented...

[Pirog]

I think it is about time to let this topic die...

[Stan]

Pirog vs. Industrialist? I thought they were the same person...

[kroner]

Pirog vs. Industrialist? I thought they were the same person...

they represent the opposite ends of the spectrum in the debate over how cantr should be treated as a game. essentially it comes down to whether the game world should be strictly interpreted based on what's presented through game mechanics, or allowed a loose interpretation where players can freely rp events, traits and objects beyond what's given.

[Revanael]

I thought this topic died about a week after it opened? So who resurrected it?

We have a dark, evil witch among us, practicing black magic and necromancy! BURN THE WITCH!

Was it you, Kroner? Are you the evil witch?