The Religion Debate Thread

[Pirog]

trage>

Yes, but unless I happen to run into God in some dark alley the chance for me starting to believe is very slim...so if I die a non-believer, where do I end up?

[new.vogue.nightmare]

No sadly I don't . I don't know how I would learn swedish in America. There are no middle school classes on it, and the high school I am going to go to doesn't have any on it either, and I don't think with the major I am going to take in college I could take it either..... I am sorry .

Actually, you learn better on your own than in school. My friend's only going to college for a degree, since he's taught himself almost everything they teach and more He dreads having to put up with know-it-all professors.

[trage]

Lenseth>

But since I don't believe in god I must be wicked, right?
Or do I have a shot at heaven for living a good life without faith?

No you are not wicked just because you don't believe. Tell me how many people do you think aren't christian or jewish? Now if god was to condem every non-christan or non-jewish to hell what do you think would happen. I mean there would be only a small percent going to heaven.

God gives everyone a chance for heaven.

[Pirog]

No you are not wicked just because you don't believe. Tell me how many people do you think aren't christian or jewish? Now if god was to condem every non-christan or non-jewish to hell what do you think would happen. I mean there would be only a small percent going to heaven.
God gives everyone a chance for heaven.

This will sound cynical, but what is the point in believing then?

[kroner]

Lenseth>

But do you really consider it free will if you must live by his very words, believe in his outrageous stories or burn in hell?

Where does it say that? You won't burn in Hell. Only the wicked will burn in Hell. You don't have to believe in any of it. There are very few people who are evil in this world. There are people who do evil things but they aren't really evil.

Yes rkl is right. You won't burn in hell if you don't live by his words. When Jesus came by a prostitute who was being chased by the town's people he stopped them and asked them why they were chasing this lady. They told Jesus that she was a prostitute and said they were going to stone her to death. Jesus told them that the one who is without sin shall cast the first stone. Slowly the people understood and left one by one. Than he told the lady to go and turn from her sinful life.

See Jesus offered her salvation for her sins. She was not following god's words before and Jesus helped her on the path to righteousness, and all god wants you to do to be saved is to believe that Jesus was his son and he died for your sins as I have said before. God offers us all the chance to save our souls and not burn in hell. I would suggest to any of you who haven't read the book of revelations to pick up the "left behind" series of books. It is I think 10 books long so far each about 300 pages, but they are very good books and go in depth into the book of revelations.

it doesn't matter what the frickin bible says. it matters what people believe. and many (as jake is a testament to) do believe that they will be in serious trouble if they question the faith. this is a harmful belief because it restricts your thinking.
in addition, you can tell me what ever you want about how you think god judges people but it won't give your claims anymore credibility than jake's or atheists' or those of people who believe that the universe was created by a winged donkey with a lisp. the point is that any interpretation of the WHY is nealy equally likely and so basing your life around one is to deny the others any of which may be the real truth.

[trage]

Ok first off Kroner I would say that the majority of the reason of why people aren't open-minded about religion is because I know my relgion says you shall worship not worship any idols or other gods. Now I know that seems very narrow-minded, but that is what religious scriptures say and people try to not do such things. Now tell me how open-minded are you about religion? What religion are you again?

[trage]

No you are not wicked just because you don't believe. Tell me how many people do you think aren't christian or jewish? Now if god was to condem every non-christan or non-jewish to hell what do you think would happen. I mean there would be only a small percent going to heaven.
God gives everyone a chance for heaven.

This will sound cynical, but what is the point in believing then?

Because that is only my P.O.V. I do not have all the answers so that is just the way I perseive it. I could very well be wrong. I know that I am not always right so this is just the way I perseive things. It does not say that all people who do not believe in me will go to hell, but it doesn't say they will go to heaven. It says the truly wicked people of the world will go to hell and those who believe that Jesus was our savior will be accepted into heaven. Now Kroner before you qoute this I ALREADY KNOW IT SOUNDS NARROW MINDED!

Oh and how did we manage to fill up 1 1/2 pages in under 30 minutes......

[Pirog]

trage>

Perhaps we non-evil non-believers will get another chance at life on earth...that would be allright with me

That's the problem with not believing in a religion, because either way I lose. If I "win" and there is no god I simply cease to exist...but if I "lose" I go to hell.

If you "win" you go to heaven and everything is great...but if you "lose" you are still at my "win" point

[Sho]

This thread is scaring me. . .

@Flood thing: The Mediterranean flood was, I think, way before civilization and is not a likely source for the Great Flood myth. The Black Sea flood, on the other hand, is being considered by many people as a possible source. One is Robert Ballard, the discoverer of the Titanic wreck.

@Jake's rant oh so long ago: Yes, I have read up on the creationism debate. I have read Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World (good book) on one hand and various essays on http://www.creationism.org on the other, to name a few. My personal opinion is that the creationism arguments are specious and, well, fishy, but I am perfectly willing to argue them out with a reasonable person.

Yes, Douglas Adams is great.

My position on this morass of pseudoarguments and counterpseudoarguments:
I am a severely lapsed Protestant of some denomination. I was baptised about 7 years ago and have not gone to church (aside from walking over to St. Patrick's Cathedral a couple of times. . . great architecture) for about 5 years. I have read all of the New Testament as well as a third of the Old Testament in Japanese and English.
I believe that religion and science should ideally have no overlap. Science should explain how the world works, worked and will continue to work. Religion should explain how to behave in it.
I am not an advocate of "equal time" in classrooms for evolution and creationism.
From a non-religious viewpoint, I think Jesus, Muhammad and Siddhartha Gautama (sp?) were wise, charismatic people whose views of human nature I essentially agree with.

[trage]

Well people have different P.O.V.s so you could very will be possibly right Pirog. As it has been said so many times before there is no way to prove anythings so I can't be sure if god exists. I just believe he does.

[kroner]

Now tell me how open-minded are you about religion? What religion are you again?

No religion for me thanks. I don't make any claims about how the universe came about except that it is unknowable.

[trage]

So are your denying the fact that there can be a higher being kroner? Oh and Sho nice statement.

[kroner]

of course not. if you think that you have read very few of my posts indeed. a god is certainly possible. so is just about every other configuration.

[trage]

If you do believe that there can be a higher being than you do believe in some sort of religion. Just not meaning a specific one. So technically you do have a religion just not a specified kind.

[kroner]

you are welcomed to call my beliefs whatever suits you.