The Ultimate International Language

[Chris Johnson]

Maybe someone should write some Esperanto Rap?

mp3 of Rap track by Finnish band Dolchamar who sing in Esperanto

[Piscator]

A shame I understand so little.

As far as I know Mandarin is spoken of about one billion people. The other languages shouldn´t matter really.

The other thing is China seems to be adopting English for a lot of its bussiness use and, as with a lot of places, I can envisage, if it is not already happening, a form of elite upper middle class who will make it their bussiness to learn engish... Don't mistake the effect of fashion/music too...

I think that´s a quite important point.

And another point against Chinese as a world language is the writing system, I think.

[Schme]

Yes, there's a thousands of Hindi local dialects, and several hundred Chinese ones, but the official language is Mandarin. Chinese do bussiness in either Manderin or Cantonese.

As for the other languages not mattering, I don't think that's true. It's part of the culture. It'd be a shame if they faded away just to make things more uniform.

Yes, English is huge in China right now, and many different countries speak English, but the only reason English is big right now is because of the British Empire and more recently, America's dominance of internation bussiness. But once America goes downhill, so will the English language.

Besides, there are hundreds of different English dialects too. Ever spoke to a guy just off the from Jamaica? Not someone who's been wherever you are for a few years, but a Jamaican speaking like they speak in Jamaica. May as well be speaking Mandarin.

[Piscator]

Of course the other Chinese languages matter in that point of view. I meant they are playing not an important role in China.

You should not forget that English is not just spoken in North America, after all, it is one of the working languages of the EU, and spoken in Australia, New Zeeland, partially in India and many different countries. And the Jamaikan guy won't have great problems to understand Standard English or any derived language too, I think.

[wichita]

中文。 说吧！

[Lychee]

Of course the other Chinese languages matter in that point of view. I meant they are playing not an important role in China.

You should not forget that English is not just spoken in North America, after all, it is one of the working languages of the EU, and spoken in Australia, New Zeeland, partially in India and many different countries. And the Jamaikan guy won't have great problems to understand Standard English or any derived language too, I think.

English is also the official language of Singapore...along with Mandarin.

[Piscator]

中文。 说吧！

?????

[Schme]

Of course the other Chinese languages matter in that point of view. I meant they are playing not an important role in China.

You should not forget that English is not just spoken in North America.

Of course. But that was just an example. South African English, Kenyan English.

But they aren't all the same. Not that people wouldn't understand each other, but they are different dialects, just as Hindi has different dialects.

[Piscator]

Yes, Hindi has surely different dialects. But thats not the point. The problem is that India has many different languages which are really languages, not mere dialects. Some of them are no closer related than for example English and Turkish, as far as I understand.

And English has the same status in India as Hindi, so thats another country which wouldn´t have a great problem with accepting English as a world language.

[Phalynx]

I'd like to hear from someone who knows, because when I was at school my geography teaching came out with bizarre figures about how many millions of chinese people didn't have electricity (pls bear in mind this was in the 80s)..

There are places in the world where english, and the other important languages aren't heard but I'm with hf (or whatever it is calling itself) that, like it or not, corporate globalisation hasn't reached those places yet, when it does so will english...

I'm also party with Schme.. The west has a significant case of the Emperor's New Clothes. Heck Japanese should become the language of bussiness as they own most of the US (myth?). But if economy's start to crumble we'll have ourselves another little war or something.

Call me pessimistic, because I am, but I actually see a medium term with English being near universal, followed by a massive deterioration in communication in the long term.

When Oil really runs out, and we haven't planned suitable alternatives, nobody will be jetting around the world, in fact driving the length of your respective country will become a problem, dialects could sepparate out into discrete languages or have a real resurgence of local languages. When we only have 3 hours of electricity a day, when it costs you a weeks wages to drive to the coast, and when public use of satelites and mobile communication is resricted, we will probably moved to some form of coded mega effecient but very unexpressive standard netspeak which becomes international and is used for news and bussiness and we will retain our beautiful local languages....

[Piscator]

Wow. You remember the eighties? From the beginning?

[Pie]

The ultimat international language is love.

And hate. And simpathy.

Emotions. And pointing at items and then stating it's name.

[Schme]

Yes, Hindi has surely different dialects. But thats not the point. The problem is that India has many different languages which are really languages, not mere dialects. Some of them are no closer related than for example English and Turkish, as far as I understand.

And English has the same status in India as Hindi, so thats another country which wouldn´t have a great problem with accepting English as a world language.

The thing is though, that Hindi, Urdu and Punjabi, the big languages, are pretty much the same. If you can speak one of the two, you can learn the two others if you can pay for education. That said, most can't.

I suppose you're right that English would be better for bussiness in India at present(I heard that fifty years ago, compliment an Indian's English ((In India)) and they'd let you murder someone.). But Chinese is coming up. Chinese bussinessmen will learn Hindi, Indian bussinessmen will learn Chinese (probably both Mandarin and Cantonesse. Cantonesse is still big, espicially in bussiness.)


I think you put it very well, Phaylanx, and brought up a very good point. The places that are rich now won't be rich forever. I just hope that in the future the places that we'll be begging for money will remember how hard it was to be dirt poor and ignored rather than how little we did for them. And that our descendants will have toilet paper.

Theoretically, Canada, with it's vast ressources, could still be a moderatly rich country with any luck and unity, and in actuality we could be a world power. The thing is, with our present leadership, I, and pretty much every other Canadian who's even vaguely aware of the world, fear we're soon going to big a massive Puerto Rico. I'm very fearful for our sovreignty. Thing is, it doesn't have to be this way, if it weren't for our sellout traitor politicians and the wannabe American aristocracy that controlls them. But I digress. That's a whole other thing. I'll get to it some other day. (Believe me, I'll do it. I love to talk about myself and things related to myself.)

It looks to me that not all that far in the future, North American is going to be split into hundreds of third world nations, probably fighting each other with all of the left over weaponry that the U.S. plutocrats bought up from their military contractor friends.

Now what was I saying again before I sidetracked myself?

Anyways, Phaylanx summed it up solidly.

The ultimat international language is love.

Love has no place in the bussiness world.

Emotions. And pointing at items and then stating it's name.

Haha! Nice!

[Lychee]

Yes, Hindi has surely different dialects. But thats not the point. The problem is that India has many different languages which are really languages, not mere dialects. Some of them are no closer related than for example English and Turkish, as far as I understand.

And English has the same status in India as Hindi, so thats another country which wouldn´t have a great problem with accepting English as a world language.

The thing is though, that Hindi, Urdu and Punjabi, the big languages, are pretty much the same. If you can speak one of the two, you can learn the two others if you can pay for education. That said, most can't.

I suppose you're right that English would be better for bussiness in India at present(I heard that fifty years ago, compliment an Indian's English ((In India)) and they'd let you murder someone.). But Chinese is coming up. Chinese bussinessmen will learn Hindi, Indian bussinessmen will learn Chinese (probably both Mandarin and Cantonesse. Cantonesse is still big, espicially in bussiness.)

Cantonese isn't really spoken much place in this world though...only in Hongkong and Guangzhou City. And most of the Chinese in North America speak Cantonese except the newer immigrants. And bear in mind Cantonese only has one "s".

[Schme]

Yes, Cantonese is only spoken in the Canton region, mostly.

But Hong Kong is fucking huge in Bussiness.

And there's tons of Cantonese speaking people in Canada.

But even if there weren't, what difference would if make? Hong Kong wouldn't sink into the Ocean.