conspiracy theories....

[kroner]

if the war was about oil we'd have been better off attacking saudi arabia.

Although less and less so, the US does still need at leat marginal approval from the international community for its irresponsible foreign policy and Bush also needs to convince voters. The reason Bush would attack Iraq and not Saudi Arabia is that they could put up some flimsy yet tangible reasons for Iraq ("the Axis of Evil"), but less so of Saudi Arabia. Iraq is openly anti US and they have a facist, but secular dictator (so that it could be view as a "liberation"). Iraq is also easier to paint as a terrorist supporter. Obviously the reasons for the war are a bit more complex, having to do with the 2004 election, "the war on terrorism", and Bush just being a moron, but oil is definitely a big underlying factor.

[Meh]

The goverment is hoarding my missing socks for some unknown purpose.

[Meh]

"Stuart" by Dead Milkmen

You know what Stuart? I like you. You're not like the other people here
in the trailer park. Oh no, don't get me wrong, they're fine people, good
Americans. But they're content to sit back, maybe watch a little Mork and
Mindy on channel 57. Maybe kick back a cool Coors 16-ouncer. They're
good fine people, Stuart. But they don't know what the queers are doing
to the soil.

You know that Johnny Werzner kid - the kid who delivers papers in the
neighborhood? He's a fine kid. Some of the neighbors say he smokes
crack, but I don't believe it. Anyway, for his 10th birthday, all he
wanted was a burrow owl, just like his old man. "Dad, get me a burrow
owl. I'll never ask for anything else as long as I live". So the guy
breaks down and buys him a burrow owl. Anyway at 10:30 the other night I
go out into my yard and there's the Werzner kid looking up in the tree. I
said, "What are you looking for?" He said, "I'm looking for my burrow
owl." I say, "Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick! Everybody knows that a
burrow owl lives in a hole in the ground! Why the hell do you think they
call it a burrow owl, anyway?!" Now Stuart, do you think a kid like that
is gonna know what the queers are doing to the soil?

I first became aware of this, about 10 years ago, the summer my oldest boy
Bill Jr. died. You know that carnival that comes to town every year?
Well this year it came with a ride called the Mixer. The man said "Keep
your head and arms inside the mixer at all times." But Bill Jr., he was a
daredevil, just like his old man. He was leaning out saying, "Hey
everybody! Look at me, look at me!" POW! He was decapitated. They found
his head over by the snowcone concession. A few days after that, I open
up the mail and there's a pamphlet in there, from Pueblo, Colorado. And
it's addressed to Bill Jr. And it's entitled, "Do you know what the
queers are doing to our soil?"

Now Stuart, if you look at the soil around any large U.S. city with a big
underground homosexual population - Des Moines, Iowa, perfect example.
Look at the soil around Des Moines, Stuart. You can't build on it, you
can't grow anything in it. The government says it's due to poor farming.
But I know what's really going on, Stuart. I know it's the queers.
They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay
Martians. I swear to God.

You know what Stuart, I like you. You're not like the other people, here
in the trailer park.

http://www.lyricstime.com/lyrics/55143.html

[rklenseth]

if the war was about oil we'd have been better off attacking saudi arabia.

Although less and less so, the US does still need at leat marginal approval from the international community for its irresponsible foreign policy and Bush also needs to convince voters. The reason Bush would attack Iraq and not Saudi Arabia is that they could put up some flimsy yet tangible reasons for Iraq ("the Axis of Evil"), but less so of Saudi Arabia. Iraq is openly anti US and they have a facist, but secular dictator (so that it could be view as a "liberation"). Iraq is also easier to paint as a terrorist supporter. Obviously the reasons for the war are a bit more complex, having to do with the 2004 election, "the war on terrorism", and Bush just being a moron, but oil is definitely a big underlying factor.

From what we have heard in the states, that most Iraqis are extremely happy that we did what we did. The only Iraqi that aren't happy are the Sunni who were Saddam's people and are actually the minority in numbers in Iraq.

In fact there is a growing movement in Iraq by Iraqis to make Iraq the US's 51st state. It won't happen because then it would seem like to the rest of the world that America took over as an imperialist power.

First of all, most of the oil that comes from US oil companies (including Bush's) comes from American soil, South America, or Russia. The US ended most of its Middle East oil deals in the 1970's after the oil embargo and the Iran hostage situation. That is why when the oil workers went on strike in South America American oil prices sky rocketed and are still seeing the effects of that. So you see, for Bush to attack Iraq for oil is cutting his own foot off. It would take away oil profits from his own company as well as the more oil in the market the less oil is worth thus the less profit he gains from his oil company. You see, for Bush to attack Iraq for oil would be committing economic suicide, literally.

Anyways, they kept saying about a month ago that the economy was going to be the main factor in the next presidential election and now that the economy has bounced back and unemployment is down, they are using Iraq. Except Iraq is getting better too. The only attacks are on Americans are occuring in the Sunni Triangle and most of the attacks are by foreign soldiers (mostly Syrians or Iranians) not Iraqis. In fact, most Iraqis are starting to support the US by turning these people in or going after them themselves. I don't think Saddam is in Iraq anymore. Personally, I think he is in Syria along with the weapons of mass destruction that they weren't able to destroy before the war began. Everything is beginning to add up. Syrian soldiers fighting the US in Iraq, huge movement of trucks going across Iraq into Syria after Bush gave his 48 hour notice that he was going to attack (weapons of mass destruction), and the Syrian government is acting awfully suspicious enough to get Israel to bomb them after they suspected something was going on in Syria. I bet that information came from the Mossad and it was important enough for Israel to risk bombing another country. I don't think they would have taken a risk like that for a few terrorist camps. Everything is beginning to add up for me.

Might we not forget that Saudi Arabia is holding American citizens captive. I would think that is reason enough to take them out though if we did, because Saudi Arabia is so influenced by religion who knows what religious maniac might come to power after the royal family is gone. Iraq is very secular so those religious maniacs most likely won't come to power. Plus, you consider the many different forms of Islam in Iraq would keep one from really gaining power.

[kroner]

Whether the war benifited people in Iraq was really of little consequence to the Bush administration, except as a selling point. As for this Iraqi support of US troops, I haven't heard anything like that.
US control of Iraqi oil lowers oil prices regaurdless of whether it is directly controlled by US oil companies or not (even though it will be anyway).
And finally the fact that Saudi Arabia has a terrible terrorist supporting, religious based, classist government just supports my arguement that the US choosing Iraq was simply politics.

[new.vogue.nightmare]

So, uh, Kroner? When are we going to see these oil prices dropping like they should?

[rklenseth]

Whether the war benifited people in Iraq was really of little consequence to the Bush administration, except as a selling point. As for this Iraqi support of US troops, I haven't heard anything like that.
US control of Iraqi oil lowers oil prices regaurdless of whether it is directly controlled by US oil companies or not (even though it will be anyway).
And finally the fact that Saudi Arabia has a terrible terrorist supporting, religious based, classist government just supports my arguement that the US choosing Iraq was simply politics.

Considering that Iraq is joining OPEC it won't help US oil companies. And in the long run, lower oil prices will hurt US oil companies instead of helping them as they will have to compete with this Iraqi oil and by doing so, lower their prices.

I think choosing Iraq was more than just politics. Iraq is very secular as well as it has a diverse and fibrant culture unlike many other Islamic cultures that surround it. But under Saddam, that Iraqi culture has been stifled. Now that Iraq is no longer under Saddam, the Iraqis are beginning to go back to their own ways. They are opening up schools and universities. Muesems of both history and art that were previously closed under Saddam's regime. If democracy succeeds in Iraq then perhaps revolutions would occur in Iran and Saudi Arabia by people in those countries who want the same thing. Also, look at where we are positioned now. We are in Iraq from one side and Afghanistan from the other so now Iran can't give us anymore bs without having a major problem. So there are many more reasons for attacking Iraq than Saudi Arabia. Plus, we would have to deal with religious fanatics in Saudi Arabia while in Iraq most of the people wanted Saddam out including his own soldiers who were forced to fight. The only people that support Saddam and even those are dwindling are the Sunni and the foreign soldiers who probably have other interests at stake.

There was a news story about Iraq and this group in Iraq trying to get Iraq to become the 51st state. One of the most powerful clerics, who was recently assassinated in the Sunni Triangle by Syrians, supported this movement. And according to the news report, the movement is only growing stronger. Even so that most Iraqis are throwing out the Iraqi currency (which is teh Denar (sp?)) and will only use American currency. Plus, you only really hear about the attacks occuring in the Sunni Triangle by Saddam supporters and not about everything else that is happening in Iraq which is really good stuff. Many people expected the Iraqis to rise up against the US but most Iraqis are actually supporting the US and want the US to stay even though the rest of the world wants us out so they can go in. I think once everything is said and done, the Iraqis will be better off and the Americans will be proven right in the end. But we will see. I suspect the attacks in Iraq to slowly die out in the next few months as Saddam's supporters and these foreign soldiers slowly dwindle out into nothing.

[kroner]

So, uh, Kroner? When are we going to see these oil prices dropping like they should?

they were supposed to as soon as the US took control, but things in Iraq went awry... poor Mr. Bush uncertainty is always bad for the economy.
oh and to rklenseth, higher supply always equals lower prices no matter how you slice it. That's basic economics.

[Meh]

And you all know that part of the reconstruction plan is currently IMPORTING oil into Iraq.

It wasn't about oil.
No comment on the true intent.
The reconstruction no matter how good or bad is as corrupt as we have come to expect.

[rklenseth]

So, uh, Kroner? When are we going to see these oil prices dropping like they should?

they were supposed to as soon as the US took control, but things in Iraq went awry... poor Mr. Bush uncertainty is always bad for the economy.
oh and to rklenseth, higher supply always equals lower prices no matter how you slice it. That's basic economics.

Isn't that what I said? The US oil companies don't want lower prices or competition. So they wouldn't want the Iraqi oil. They can sell less oil for higher prices. So in the end they gain more than they lose.

Plus, I don't think things went awry at all. Plus, the economy is up and the unemployment is down and everyone is predicting a huge come back in the economy in the next year. Iraq is no longer a ig problem is only blown out of proportion by the news media who doesn't really support what the Iraqi think or feel.

I recently saw an interview from one of the Human Shield people who went to Iraq. He was against war before going over there and when he went over there only to learn that the Iraqia wanted the US to invade and take over. They feel they are better off under the US than Saddam or any religious maniacs and he said most Iraqis support the US and that it's really just the Sunnis and these foreign soldiers who are fighting against the US. And this coming from someone who was against Bush and the war before and now sees it as only right and justified after actually going over there and seeing the end result.

As I said before, in a few months the Sunnis and the foreign soldiers will be either dead, captured, or given up and go home at which point things will settle down. Then you will begin hearing more and more good storied from Iraq than these killings in the Sunni Triangle.

[Meh]

The weeds growing up between the concrete have organic recording devices on them.

[kroner]

And back to the topic, the war and all Bush's policies to bankrupt the government are part of the Reganite conspiracy to force the federal government to srink in the classic conservative style. They're out to destroy us all! (and all our social programs) *hides under a blanket*

[Meh]

OK.
You caught me.
The Iraq war is an OOC device of mine to get some things done for my characters.
While your distracted here, I've had much fun.
It was planned before I even started playing.
Go check.

I'm not going to get banned for this?

[Thomas Pickert]

This is currently being considered in the PD.

[Pirog]

rklenseth>

In fact there is a growing movement in Iraq by Iraqis to make Iraq the US's 51st state. It won't happen because then it would seem like to the rest of the world that America took over as an imperialist power.

You actually get fed by that type of propaganda in the news?
And it aint even Fox News?
That is incredably scary...because European media, or at least Swedish media, reports pretty much everyday about how much the Iraqis hate your guts, and humanitarian organizations critize the lack of planning from the American forces, regarding humanitarian aid.

This will probaby sound mean, but you really shouldn't complain about Muslim fundamentalists when your Christian counter part have so much influence over your own politics....

And what about Saudi Arabia holding Americans as prisoners?
What about the captives from the Afghanistan war, who have been held for years by a made up term so that your government doesn't have to follow international law?