Communism - Good or evil?

[JherodJ]

Seriously the U.S government is split into3 branches that can`t step on each others toes?The federal government does what it wants,Like it did in the war of nothern aggression and has continued to do so,I bet next you`ll tell me most americans supported the unconstituional war in vietnam?
Well they didn`t and the reason why it appened is american ignorance and blind faith,obviously someone is herding us,It`s evidence is all around but you refuse to see it.

[The Lurker]

So, JherodJ, this is what you are saying:
1. Communism = evil
2. Facsism = evil
3. US government = facsism = evil

If one of the leading democratic republic is just facsism in disguise, and both facsism and communism are bad, that doesn't leave us with many places to turn, does it? What do you suggest for the new world order?

[JherodJ]

I`m glad you asked:)First archive the sum of human knowledge for our decndants(maybe some will start learning from past mistakes) I suggest a nuclear holocaust or genetically engineered viruses to thin the herd(9/10`s of the human pop),kill all bankers and lawyers,politicians and capitalist,if any survive and start over in the non-radiated zone in an agrarian society,start electing leaders (once the need arises again)based on there intelligence/ability and not there party affiliations or there pocket linings.Start the true commune system ,and replant the gardens of Eden,and become the earths keepers as was meant instead of its exploiters.

I think Einstien said,I know not what weapons WW3 will be fought with,but I can assure you ww4 will be fought with sticks and stones.

Harsh,cruel,barbaric and ultimately right.Will it happen? who knows?
The facsist that are in control and have been for a long time will likely start this war to kill any they cannot control(U.S,in Iraq) and thinning the population to a nice manageable size,The concentration camps have already been built by FEMA and various executive orders allow them to herd us like cattle.My favorite one is the executive order allowing FEMA,once a state of emergency is declared the ability to lock anyone up and confiscate there property,With no trial for 6 monhs(by then,There will be no one left to assure you a trial)

We can only hope a few saints and patriots will step in to make sure the right ones,emerge as the new leaders of humanity,as opposed to the bankers/lawyers/politicians.


If this cannot happen because there`s none left than I suggest nothing,just wait to die.)

[rklenseth]

To answer your question quickly since I don't have time for a long post, JherodJ. Yes, I believe in the loose interpretation of the US Constitution as the writers of the Constitution had implied so that is could change with the changing times. A strict imperpretation would have led to another Articles of Confederation and the first decade of the US. You have your rights as ong as they don't infringe on other people's rights such as disturbing the peace. You can protest all you want. And in fact if you lived in another coountry and you said something as you said on this board against your government, you would be arrested the next for inciting revolution. In America, we don't do that. Most Americans are Moderate and to call them stupid is a very ignorant statement though I would support that statement for the younger half of the population.

The two current political parties are the one's in power because that is what most Americans want, like it or not. I don't believe in the two-party system as well as I am a follower of George Washington's ideals (I'm an Independent). Though that is the reality right now. The first few presidency there weren't any political parties but then people started figuring out it was better to get your ideas if you banded together in a strong group thus political parties came to be. The Democrats and Republicans were once one party until they split off. Then there was the Federalist Party and the Whig Party which both died off. Today I would say that the Green Pary (the original German socialist party at the end of World War II) is the most powerful third party today. And third parties and indenpendents have been elected. It's just that they don't have a large body of support like the Democrats or Repulbicans. Frankly, I vote for whoever is the best canditate or don't vote at all if there are none. That is my right.

Oh, I would like to know where the PATRIOT ACT is infringing on your rights. I have read the law and I don't see where it is infringing though I always read these articles that claim it is.

Anyways, the Nazi pary started out as a Conservative workers party for factory workers and soldiers at the end of World War I. Then Hitler (who was currently at the time a jobless World War I soldier with no money) came along and they propped him up in their beer halls. Many rich aristocrats believe in what he was saying; the uniting of the German people under one government etc... And joined the Nazi cause. The rich aristocrats had no afflitation with the German Conservative Party. The Conservatives didn't begin supporting the Nazis until they knew if they didn't then they would lose their base of power to them.

And to answer the question of this subject; Communism is not really evil, neither is facism. What was evil was the people using the ideals for their own means.

Personally, I support the War in Vietnam in propping up a democratic system (but was way to currupted; something should have been done about that) over a Communist system (remember I am a Moderate Conservative). The fact was that most Southern Vietnamese didn't want to live under a Communist State but North Vietnam didn't give them that choice and created a agression against them which we tried to stop. We made too many stupid mistakes in Vietnam as well as allowed corrupted government officials to abuse the people who later turned on the democratic system they once supported. The Vietnam wasn't a war, according the Constitution, but a conflict which allowed the President, according to the Gulf of Tonik (SP?) Resolutions, to fight it because the Congress gave away their right to declare war in that bill (though some would say that is Unconstitutional and that Congress can't give away that right) which was later repealed by the Congress and Nixon later pulled out of the war when he was elected president.

Why don't you try winning the hearts of people instead of saying you would rather see a Nuclear Holocaust which would wipe most of them out? You don't win support by threatening to kill them all.

[JherodJ]

[quote="rklenseth"]You can protest all you want. And in fact if you lived in another coountry and you said something as you said on this board against your government, you would be arrested the next for inciting revolution. In America, we don't do that. Most Americans are Moderate and to call them stupid is a very ignorant statement though I would support that statement for the younger half of the population.






You can protest so long as you get the correct liscenses,the reason while it is tolerated is because the masses are lazy and you will almost never incite enough to get actual change,when you do its only because the puppeteers allow it as a compromise to keep the taxation going.

The facsist regimes of the European/american banker union,are realist,while the facsist regimes of former Iraq etc.are surrealist and ultimately paranoid that the lazy masses could be incited.

I go a step further but agree about the younger half,most are completely retarded while the rest of america i refer to as stupid,a person can be smart.A people are nothing but a herd,just as most other mammalsand must be guided,most follow the herd.
Also I feel most "moderates" are simply in denial of whats going on and willing to accept the lies,than work hard for the truth.It`s easier to flip flop between who sounds good today.I honestly respect those who are dumb enough to accept a single party more than I do the people who flip flop and never know where they stand.
I appreciate your arguments RK your very on top of your"facts" at least the approved ones. I will continue reading the rest of your post now and countering where I see the need.

again I appreciate your intellect very much and your naievity,more so.

[JherodJ]

I don't believe in the two-party system as well as I am a follower of George Washington's ideals (I'm an Independent).

A thing I totally and completely agree with you on.

[watermelonnose]

Jherod, your scenario would slip into the same statist trap that we are in now (not that I would want to see that happen even to get rid if the state). The whole idea of needing leaders is repugnant. As humankind evolves socially maybe someday we will realize we don't need leaders or the state. (leaders is the sense of a government). The concept of the state as constituted is evil since the state uses force and aggression to accomplish everything it does.

[JherodJ]

Though that is the reality right now. The first few presidency there weren't any political parties but then people started figuring out it was better to get your ideas if you banded together in a strong group thus political parties came to be. The Democrats and Republicans were once one party until they split off.

Correction the first president was affiliated with no political parties and strongly warned against them,Do to his belief the english party system was totally and completely corrupt much as i see the american political system today.All later president`s were a member of one start-up party or another.
political parties were already very old instituions at this point.Also the idea of th modern democratic and republican parties didn`t come into being until the 1960`s for the former and the late/early 19th century for the latter.That`s way off the time period in question.They have obviously had some minor shifts in policies over time,just another control measure to keep people wondering,What do they stand for again? Oh well I like his name or this is who my parents voted for(yes I`ve seen people actually vote like this)

[JherodJ]

[quote="rklenseth]
The two current political parties are the one's in power because that is what most Americans want, like it or not. [/quote]



Correction,These two are the ones in power and the only ones in power because MOST americans dont care.I`m not going to go look but im sure you will RK;) out of the 300 million +people in the united states,How many are 18 yrs old and legal citizens? And how many voted? And I`m not just asking about the election for the Facsist branch of the government(presidential incase no one guessed)

[Darth Tiberius]

OK. I'll try and make this short and sweet (sorry for any spelling mistakes).

Communism is wrong on many fronts. First of all, communsim relies on its principles as a utopian society. This is where everyone gets along and is equal where greed and corruption don't exist. This cannot happen! Greed and corruption are in all of us. We cannot just ignore it. That is why I believe that communism is a very naive way of living. It is absolutely absurd since it is also a way of brainwashing people while the government exacts control on everything.

Communism says the state should be all powerful. Look at the countries which have had commuinism. They are all stuggling. Russia, Cuba and North Korea are prime examples. Communism in itself would be an exellant theory. If this was a perfect world. But this is not a perfect world. It never will be. Whoever believes in utopia is living in a large fantasy world. People too often use communism for their own selfish gains. It is a pity.

I do admit that America and the other capitalist nations have thekir own faults. 5% control 80% of the nation's wealth. That si very terrible but communism opens the door much wider for people like Stallin to step in. He took all the nations wealth and spent it on military equipment. Instead on investing in public services he squandered it. I am an American/Finnish person. I love the system where people are alowed to be all they can be as long as they work for it. That is the basis behind the American dream. Unfortuntely, nowadays people will, take it so that big business put a stranglehold on smaller people looking to make it in the business world. That is unfortunate. But communism says that you cannot be what you could be potentially. Commusinsm takes away so many personal liberaties and for what? I will now go through what was wrong with the two major people behiond communism. Marx and Lennin.

Marx himself was a hypocrite! There is evidence to show that Marx overindulged all his life on everything. And he would tell people to donate to the state. That is very bad of him. If he is to say that than at least he should of followed his own ideals. Marx also was VERY hostile towards religion. He called it an opium for the people. In his ramblings he said that chburhces and places of worship should be closed down since it isn't a business and efficeint to the state and the people. He said it was a waste of time and resources so he encouraged countries which were taken by his crap to enforce crippling taxes on the churches. That is why most of them closed down. Even if you are not religious you must see that doing that is very wrong. Marx kin my books was allmost as bad as Stallin.

Lennin was even worse. He said that the state was to be expanding into many areas. He said in order to expand as a world, other nations should be communist as well. He authorised many attacks into neighbouring countries like Georgia and Finland (my motherland). Luckily most of them including Finland maintained their independance but many were conquered. Lennin was bloodthirsty and believed in sometime to have no trial for proven murderers. He had hangings. Basically what he believed was monstrous.

Economically, communism works. IN THE SHORT RUN!!! But in the long run communism fails miserably. I know. I do economics and will be taking it much further in terms of degree level. Communism as well as being a form of control is also a form of again to enforce an elite group within the government by using the resources and capital not in efficent terms by not investing htem in the market. In that way technnologically the marketed products fall back behind modern standards.

Overall I think that we should have acentral based market system in the middle of the political spectrum. Communism is wrong just like any extreme. Nazism was an extreme. Communism isn't seen as evil since it is wrapped up in a nice package with absolutely no content. It brainwashes impresionable youth into believing the west is all wrong and that the west is evil. It create drones lof mindless zombies to go around and say that "America is evil". When America is not. America is a wonderful country. America is definately not perfect however. I have not much time. I had more to say but I accidentally pushed the delete page button instead of another button so most of my other comments were lost. I can't remember them. A few were very insightful and philosophical. I anticipate any reply. I'll challenge any critisizms systematically. Just pose any questions or comments you have.

[JherodJ]

Jherod, your scenario would slip into the same statist trap that we are in now (not that I would want to see that happen even to get rid if the state). The whole idea of needing leaders is repugnant. As humankind evolves socially maybe someday we will realize we don't need leaders or the state. (leaders is the sense of a government). The concept of the state as constituted is evil since the state uses force and aggression to accomplish everything it does.

The end result of my scenario,ON the good side if it prevailed(I believe the state will initiate the mass holocuast in an attempt for control,security,war on terrorism)is that all would hopefully be educated to the point government IS NOT a necessary evil as you so correctly state,
In the commune system where the herd is guided and grown on the foundations of community family compassion love and muual respect for all living things,Those are the important things and so much as those left living truly and deeply believe that.A new era of mankind would usher in

The only way I can describe it is as an anarchal/republican/communal society rolled up into a small democracy,anarchal in the sense no(order or command except the principles mentioned above) exists.Republican in the sense of economics,to decide what this cell will specialize in and maintain or amend its structure as needed.Democratic in the sense all are equal and each persons opinion is respected,noted and heard.Than weighed against all others thoughts and ideas(votes if you will) where the most consenssus goes,based on the principles above as oppossed to profit all members of this cell agree to agree by majority consensus,and do what is needed.Communal in the sense the population of the planet is split into thousands of small cells(once it grows back) with each one specializing in something,with the progress of technology connectivity especially the decendents of this thing your looking at it will not be a problem.It`s really afree market system(between the cells) but a planned and managed one within the cell, I`m getting tired im not going to explain every last detail,Lookat a living organism micrscopically,See it as the parts of the organism do,DO what it takes to make the whole in peak performance.Self-sacrifice being a virtue(not life unless more than 1 was at stake) That is the ultimate evolution if the good attributes of mankind,Where capitalism has a limited but essential role in the system. and if you still don`t get it WATCH STAR TREK AND IMAGINE HOW VULCAN SOCIETY GOT TO ITS POINT.They took an ideal that is a virtue(logic) and brought it realization.No one will probally care but if someone ask I`ll explain more later.

[JherodJ]

ok he just made this typing session four hours long for me,If I ever finish explaining how utopia will work I`ll start reading and countering new arguments until than I need a break have fun peeps=;

[Darth Tiberius]

You can't judge politics on the basis of popular sci-fi programs except for Star Wars. Even though Star Trek is a good program you've kind of missed the question. Maybe I've missed your point.

[JherodJ]

I think maybe you have because it would take me 5 hrs to type explaining in detail but if you can observe the way a cell acts within an organism its a a 90% accurate analogy.Except there is evident choice going on,within the cells,but outside it operates as a whole and is known as a whole do to the consensus of the dna inside although often it seems to be pulled in different direction,Due to the foundation of virtues as opposed to the foundation of greed.Its progress is only guaranteed.
and with religion just left out of the loop,our jobs are to be here and now and do the best we can.A government is Macroorganism it should behave like one and quit self-cannabilizing, unless it absolutely must in order to survive.The key is to be like the cell don`t even pay attention to the infinite around you maintain the self and do as much good for other selves as possible,in turn they will you.

[Meh]

On Facism the reason why it is hard to tell from communism is that facism was about nationalism. Everyone is so nationalistic now that this part of facism is often forgotten. Leninist Communism was making an anti-state which for all intensive purposes just became a large state opposed to all the other non-communist states and in effect was no different.

Both were the removal of local control and culture to support the larger state's control and culture. The USA continues to become more federailized. Need I metion the EU super state? And while China may be doing many experiments with it's goverment it will still be China in the end.

Who did what is evil has little meaning in the context of things are all coming together more and more and some people fear who will have control in such a situtuation. Companies as is Quil?

Nationalism is yet to be expressed by the chracters widely in the game there is widespread "locationism". For one the larger states are named after thier capital locatons which undermines nationalistic tendencies.