Suck Taser

[nitefyre]

The irony here is I believe the session was convened in recognition of Constitution Day. First amendment, anybody?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It's really scary how readily Americans forfeit and compromise their rights for the sake of... what is it, really?

[the_antisocial_hermit]

They claim national security.

[nitefyre]

Not to hijack the topic, but here's another interesting and quasi-related story is Columbia's president speech after inviting Iran's president to speak:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/world ... ei=5087%0A

[size=7]Psssht, Columbia...[size]

[Zanthos]

am i the only one who believes the police were justified in their actions?

At the worst, the police overreacted, and when there is someone high profile in the room, its argueably their duty to overreact to any potential threat. He was being unruly, not adhereing to the rules set forth for the talk, and in general a douchebag. He did everything he could to appear to be the victim, when he in all actuality provoked the attack by not listening to the cops and then resisting them when they came onto him. If he put down the microphone, none of this would have happened.

So get off the cop's case, they're just doing their job. Maybe they overreacted, but what if he was hogging the mic so he could get closer to kerry and pull a gun on him? he was already resisting, what if he had a knife on him? Would you have rather they beat him with night sticks to subdue him than taze him for about 10 seconds?

And schme, you do not have to be charged on arrest, but if you arent charged within 24 hours you have to be let go. this allows for the cops to take someone in for general acts of stupidity that they dont want to charge, call someone, and have them pick them up. (like, if a group of kids get arrested for underaged drinking, but they don't want to press charges for breaking the law, the cops do have the authority to take them to holding cells until their parents pick them up)

[the_antisocial_hermit]

He only really started getting agitated and becoming a problem when they were giving him issues about finishing his question. If they'd just let him finish the question, he wouldn't have gotten nearly as agitated as he did. And no matter how stupid the kid made himself look, it was unnecessary to taser him. That is no way to calm someone down.

[DylPickle]

An example of brilliant policing was during the G8 summit in Alberta (yeah.. where I'm from, but still.) The summit passed by completely free of violence and riots.

Of course, the summit itself took place out in the mountains, and was surrounded by millitary personel that were instructed to shoot on sight, but the protests took place in the city of Calgary itself. Instead of having a wall of cops armed with rubber bullets and riot shields, they had bicycle cops riding alongside the protesters. At one point, a group of activists whose only wish was to cause trouble, charged a line of bike cops. The officers simply moved out of their way, and the dumbass protesters didn't even know what to do once they got through. They just sorta stood there.

I am currently studying to become a Police Officer, and Schme, I will have you know that I haven't even done so much as a puff of pot in my life. And the others I know that are pursuing the same goal as me are about the same. None are thugs or dealers. Just normal guys (and a girl ). Stop spitting on cops, and maybe they'll stop spitting on you.

[Zanthos]

the job of the cops is not to calm the kid down, it is to keep the kid from bringing any harm to anyone. He overstepped his alotted time, he infringed on everyone else's right to speak at the event, he did not have the right to the microphone anymore. He refused to relinquish it, so the police stepped in, as they were probably instructed to. you can't blame them for following orders, can you?

[Doug R.]

you can't blame them for following orders, can you?

Ah, the Nuremberg defense.

[Zanthos]

in that instance, the defence probably isnt the best. but in this case, it works doesnt it?

[Sunni Daez]

I agree with Hermi... they should have let him ask his question... forcing him to stop was wrong...BUT when they requested he did... he should have... do not resist an officers request no matter how right you feel about what is happening..... I still think the tazer was wrong and not needed.. (unless all those cops put together were not stronger than 1 man.... if thats the case.. the department needs to implement a required exercise program :S )

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Yes, he should have stopped. I saw a clip of what happened after they took him out the doors into the front and they said they were arresting him for trying to start a riot. He seemed to be a very paranoid person and believed they were going to kill him later.

[nitefyre]

Well, when a dozen cops jump on and taser you for no rational reason, I think you have a right to be at least a little frazzled, shocked, and paranoid. I'm sorry, but "starting a [one man] riot" doesn't really cut it. At all.

And as for the "right to the microphone" statement, if you listen even a little closely to John Kerry, the speaker, he says more than once to leave the student alone and let him hear the answer to the question.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I thought he did. They should've let him finish the question since Kerry was obviously willing to answer it.

[Schme]

I am currently studying to become a Police Officer, and Schme, I will have you know that I haven't even done so much as a puff of pot in my life. And the others I know that are pursuing the same goal as me are about the same. None are thugs or dealers. Just normal guys (and a girl ). Stop spitting on cops, and maybe they'll stop spitting on you.

You're not a thug and not a drug dealer? Fucking good for you! You should be rewarded for not being a bastard. What you think?

By the way, man (and no detriment to you, I'm just saying for information's sake because you brought it up.), when I say a dealer, I don't really mean pot, although that's dealt a lot too. But unless, at least in my part of the country, unless you're dealing on quiete a large scale (and I mean like Hell's deals, here), they don't even go after you for it. That's not really what I meant.

Listen, man. Here's the thing. Perhaps you and your bunch of guys trainning aren't thugs. Do you know that for real? How well do you know them, and for how long? Now I leave that up to you. Having never been to a police college, I wouldn't know how good you get to know these guys, but I believe you. Just saying. But anyhow, all these fellows out in Alberta are upstanding middle class folk. That's wonderful. Good to hear. But the thing is, that doesn't really mean a whole lot. They can just as easily be fuckers once the trainning's done.

You've got to understand, man, you are very, very out of touch, here. And nothing against you. You're just living your life. It's not you're fault you come from where you do. But these are things you're going to learn if you're going to be a cop.

Let me tell you how the police works. And don't pretend that you know yet, man, please, have at least a bit of respect for the veteran's experience. The way the police works is that you protect each other, you don't let people fuck with you and yours. If you don't make certain that nobody fucks with you or don't back up your buddies, you have no respect and are pretty much worthless. Also, and this is very important, you never, NEVER, report your partner's misconduct. Do that, and nobody, even the good honest guys, will want to work with you, because you're not to be trusted.

Do you know who else works like that? Gangs. That goes for organized, flag flying, patch wearing and otherwise solid membership gangs as well as just hoodlum culture in general. If someone fucks with you, you wreck them or otherwise make certain they don't try to again, and that everyone else will think twice. Someone gets one of your buddies, you get payback. Otherwise you have no respect, and are worthless, because people don't HAVE to respect you. Might is right. Same goes for if you don't have enough to back you up. And again, you never snitch. Not because of some sense of "Honour". No, because if you do, people will no longer trust you, no longer back you up, and also, they will get you back for it, and that done, you'll no longer have any respect. Respect is safety.

Police retaliate to. Usually against people who piss them off, say by escaping from them, not getting convicted or just because they know them. The police are rarely hurt, though.

It works both ways, man. This isn't a morality thing with me. I don't believe in morality anymore. It's just the facts. The Police are in effect a gang. They're arbitrary just as thugs are, and they have purpose just as thugs do. They work the exact same way. It's a gang with paperwork.

Now, like you say. "Stop spitting on the cops. Maybe they'll stop spitting on you. Animated happy face."

That's the thing, man. Maybe we could all get along. But at present, that's not the situation. The Police, being resonably, after having been in the bussiness, wary of danger, have a tendency to beat the shit out of people, arrest people for no reason, like you've seen (This is a modern phenomenon) tase people whenever anything happens, kick people in the face, break their bones with metal batons, steal, put handcuffs on people so tight that it cuts off their circulation, trash people's homes, where their children live (yes, we've got children too, imagine that.), take revenge on people who've pissed them off, take out their job stresses in whoever it is they arrest by beating them, and then lie about all of it. There is no recourse, legal or otherwise, against the police. Unless you have money for a lawsuit, which we don't, you're fucked, and even if you did, the police have more. No cop will ever inform on his own, and if he does, he doesn't stay around.

Just last night a fellow was telling me about his rather unpleasant arrest. Hog tied with handcuffs and beaten. Guy's fucking 14 years old. Oh, and I should just quit fucking "Spitting on the police"? Because I'm not some fucking communist or something, man. This is for real. Know what would happen if I spit on a pig for real, by the way? I'd be beaten senseless. Probably tased, too.

You say you're not a thug, man, but you'd better become one, and fast. It's the nature of the job. It's what you're paid to do. They say things about "Community sensitivity" and "Community understanding" and "Building bridges" and all kinds of shit having to do with "The Community". And that’s great. That’d be wonderful. For real, when somebody can come in and settle a dispute in a way in which neither side loses face, that’s the best thing in the entire world! The people you’ll be dealing with are poor. All they have in the world is each other’s respect (because rich people sure as fuck don’t respect them. And maybe they shouldn’t, but either way, that’s the fact.). If they lose that, they lose everything. People will even steal from them. Were the police respected as good people with the best interest of everyone (and not just the safety of the rich and their property and system) at heart, then they could do this, and next to nobody would get hurt. But you’re not. You’re tools of the rich. And that’s fine. But you’re not even decent tools of the rich who we can get along with and who just do their jobs and do them well. No. You don’t like “Us”, and you act on those feelings.

“Don’t spit on the police and they won’t spit on you.” Do you think if everyone just stopped talking trash about the cops, they’d all of a sudden just start being nice and maybe fair sometimes? Do you think if the cops stopped talking trash about all the scum they fight with day to day that that scum would stop being scum? C’mon, buddy. It’s far from that simple. Don’t be ridiculous. Anybody can see further than that.

You illustrated the problem quiete well with what you said, man. “There’s problems between the relationship between the police and the working class, you say? No, fuck you. There are no problems. Your concerns are invalid and mean nothing to us. So move along.”

Heaven forbid you try to see it from another point of view, if only for your own sake. Know your enemy, my friend.



That said, I know you’re just living your life. Congratulations on making something of yourself. Police officer is not at all a bad paying job, if a difficult one. Good on you. And good luck.

[Schme]

the job of the cops is not to calm the kid down, it is to keep the kid from bringing any harm to anyone. He overstepped his alotted time, he infringed on everyone else's right to speak at the event, he did not have the right to the microphone anymore. He refused to relinquish it, so the police stepped in, as they were probably instructed to. you can't blame them for following orders, can you?

Actually, the Police ARE supposed to calm people down. Part of the job description is to "Keep the peace". Evidently you've not had much experience with the police in your neighbhourhood. Congradulations on your affluence.

He did not, in fact, overstep his alloted time, or infringe on anyone elses right to speak. There was no alloted time (although certainly, nobody would want him to speak for more than a minute tops), and the Senator wanted to hear what he had to say. The police had no place there. He did have the right to the microphone as it was John Kerry's lecture, not the police departement's, and John Kerry wanted to hear his questions. The cops had no right to touch him in any way.

"Probably instructed too"? You'll have to do better than that, bud.

And I think it is rather evident that they were not instructed to. They decided they didn't want him to askt he question and told him to shut up, and he embarrassed them by refusing, so they fucked him up. Never embarass a cop.

The job of the police is to enforce the laws as set out by the nations legislative bodies, not to break those laws while in uniform, which they did.

And yes, you can blame them for following orders if they're ordered to break the law as it stands. Police constables do not have legislative power.